Episode 8: Send Us Some Cronuts

Two Cents Plus Tax


Transcript has been lightly edited for readability.

(theme song plays)

K: I’m Krystal.

C: I’m Caitlin.

K: And this is …

K & C: Two Cents Plus Tax!

C: Welcome back to Two Cents Plus Tax.

K: Yay.

K & C: (laugh)

K: Again. Starting the show off with an incredible amount of energy

C: I love it. (laughs) 

K: That’s just what I bring to things. (sighs)

C: How are you?

K: I’m okay. I mean, we were sort of talking prerecording about how we all just woke up 

C: Right.

K: So this is gonna be a really fun, kinda loopy episode, um … yeah. But I’m okay, for the most part. How are you?

C: I’m good. I slept an amazing amount of time last night, so I’m feeling refreshed.  

K: (laughs) Yeah. I’m feeling vaguely annoyed my Twitter still is broken—

C: Mm.

K: —but apparently something is actually going on, so I feel less worried that I like got shadowbanned or something. (laughs) 

C: Okay, what is that? I have read that term and you mentioned it to me yesterday, but I still don’t really understand what it is.

K: Oh, shadowbanned. So basically it’s a way for … it comes from message board communities, but essentially it’s a way to keep a person from being able to wreak havoc on a site by limiting the things they can do but without actually, you know, deleting their account or outright banning them from being able to sign in or getting rid of their account. So basically you can—they can sign in, see things, but they can’t interact normally in the way that they would.

C: Uh-huh.

K: And so it keeps them from like getting into stuff with other people. So I thought—so occasionally … Twitter says it doesn’t do this, but I think it actually—

C: Lies.

K: —does, yeah. (laughs) So yeah, occasionally people will be able to tweet, but they won’t necessarily be able to see their timeline or see their @ replies or what have you, so they can put stuff out there, but they can’t interact with other people’s posts or tweets and they can’t see if ppl are responding to theirs. So I thought like okay, well maybe that happened, like maybe someone reported me for something, which you know … (laughs) is a thing that happens on Twitter.

C: It’s very … yeah. It’s very suspicious timing giving the controversy

K: Right.

C: —we just experienced over casserole.

K: I mean, to be honest, it wasn’t controversy, because I was pretty much right.

C: Touché.

K: Like, my whole question was what is it, and could these things that aren’t necessarily considered casseroles, like lasagna and enchiladas, are they maybe technically casseroles? And it seems like … you know, the consensus is that they are—

C: Though I have to say—

K: —so I feel vindicated.

C: As you should. Though some people did feel very strongly that it was not casserole.

K: I know. I saw! I saw that.

C: Somebody snorted in Italian, they said.

K: Well, you know, as an Italian connoisseur myself, I felt weird saying it, but I’m like, I don’t think that casserole—that’s another thing about why I was just like, I don’t know what it is. I don’t know that it’s necessarily like, culturally specific right?

C: Mm-hmm.

K: If the whole idea is that you’re just taking ingredients, you put them together, and then you put them in the oven and they meld, I’m like, well why can’t lasagna be casserole? You know? Like that’s the whole—

C: Right.

K: Anyway. I was right. (laughs) Lasagna technically is casserole according to our poll respondents, so I’m feeling good. I’m feeling good about it.

C: I think that is a good segue into what we’re talkin about today. 

K: Mm-hmm.

C: So today, we are gonna be delivering into one of my favorite topics, which is food. I am a food heaux. H-E-A-U-X, heaux. 

K: Yes. (laughs) 

C: So, food. Love to … I love to eat it; love to make it; love to read about it; love to talk about it.

K: Yep. Yep. Same.

C: And we’re gonna be talking about food trends and food flops. Of which there are many. So—

K: It’s funny … yeah, when we came up with this topic, it seems like the flops were the first thing that came to mind for me, but I don’t know if that’s just because there have been some that have been historically bad, or if, you know, (laughing) my mind is always better at picking up negative things.

C: I think they just come to mind because some of them have been such spectacular failures. nd in doing research for this episode, I found that there is a place in … I think it’s Sweden, that is a Museum of Failure

K: Nice.

C: —which I just have to say: what a name.

K: Perfect, yeah. (laughs) 

C: Museum of Failure.

K: And it would be in some like, you know, Northern European country like that. They are very good about sort of … you know, leaning into the depressing. Which I enjoy.

C: I think … absolutely. I think part of it is … this is just a guess on my end, but the lack of daylight. 

K: Yeah, exactly. (laughs) 

C: But before I forget what I was gonna say, because it happens constantly, the Museum of Failure in Sweden, they would highlight, I believe, some fast food failures. 

K: Mm-hmm.

C: And so I was doing some research into some of the failures, and I have to say, some of them were truly truly hilarious, and some of the ad campaigns were also equally funny. I did not remember this, but McDonald’s had a pizza.

K: Oh yeah! I remember that.

C: And their tagline in the commercial was Pizza You Won’t Believe-uh.

K: (groans) Ohhh. That’s not even trying. (laughs) 

C: (laughs) It’s not trying, but it made me laugh.

K: Ohh, McDonald’s. They could have done so much better!

C: Yes, they could have.

K: I think though, we have this idea … I don’t know. I was watching … History Channel had this weird—I don’t even know what it was. It’s like this show, but it’s like an anthology, and it was about like, the food that built America. And so they were talking about like … they would talk about these companies and how they came up with their most famous products, and like now, we think of McDonald’s as like this huge juggernaut cuz it’s everywhere in the world. You know, there’s like a thousand in California alone, probably. (laughs) You know?

C: Mmm.

K: But it’s funny to think like, yeah, no, it was just like a person who came up with it and they had like one restaurant. I think it started in Florida, maybe? And now it’s everywhere. (laughs) And so the idea that they would come up with such a terrible tagline, being this giant multinational corporation, it’s like … (laughs) that’s what you came up with? Like, come on.

C: That was the best they could do.

K: I know. It’s sad. It’s real sad.

C: They’re fine. They’re doing fine.

K: Yeah. I mean, I’m not—I have no sympathy for, you know, McDonald’s marketing program at all. (laughs) I’m just like, it just is very depressing, you know?

C: Yeah. A lot of these … I definitely didn’t remember. There was like McDonald’s Mighty Wings that were just expensive chicken wings, which I don’t remember, and then Taco Bell apparently had some truly disgusting-looking things, like a waffle taco and a pancake taco—

K: Wait, those sound good, actually. (laughs) I’m gonna stop you. That sounds good! A waffle taco?

C: Not in the picture that I’m looking at. (laughs) 

K: Oh, okay. I mean, it might not have been good in practice, but in theory, I’m like, I could see that working if you put the right stuff inside.

C: Yeah! Yeah, I could see it working. I don’t believe the execution from Taco Bell worked.

K: I mean, obviously. It doesn’t exist anymore—

C: It does not. No.

K: —so (laughs) clearly it was a miss. But I’m like, mm, that sounds not that bad. I could go for that.

C: Yeah. I could see it. One thing too that immediately came to my mind was—and I was so excited about this—was the cronut.

K: Oh, yes. Yeah. Did you ever have one?

C: Yes. Although of course, I don’t remember. 

K: (laughs) 

C: So I love a portmanteau. I love that it is—so if you’re not familiar, a cronut is a croissant and a donut. And I should say too, I am not a huge sweets person. I love savory—

K: What? We have to end this podcast right now. No. I can’t abide it. That’s amazing. I mean … good. Maybe that’s good. I’ll be the sweets person, and you can be the savory person.

C: I’ll be the salty. Just like our personalities.

K: (laughs) That doesn’t feel right, though! 

C: No? 

K: No, it feels wrong. It feels like we should be switched, like I should be the salty one and you should be the sweet.

C: Really? Okay.

K & C: (laugh) 

C: Well, yeah, so the cronut, that was a huge thing. I know I tried it, and I remember being—I think I tried it with Toshio—

K: Mm.

C: —and I think … cuz we had a weird running joke for about a decade—I don’t know why—about the cronut. Maybe just cuz it sounds so silly? Cronut?

K: I like it. I like the name. I never had one. I remember it was like, humongous—see like this is the thing about a lot of food trends, is they tend to … at least the ones that are related to like,you have to go to a place and buy it—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —like it’s created by a certain business or a certain restaurant or what have you, is that they start in big cities, and if you’re not in those cities, obviously it’s gonna take a while to sort of filter down to where you are. And I think because it was in New York, and then it sort of branched out to other big cities, I wasn’t—I don’t think—at the time, I think I was still in the Central Valley, and (laughs) obviously there was not gonna be any cronuts anywhere in the valley. And so I think by the time I actually moved back to the Bay Area, it’s like it had already… it had passed its trendiness and was no longer popular, (laughs) so I never got to have one.

C: We need our fans to send us some cronuts.

K: (laughs) First of all, where would they send them? Secondly, how long would it take, because we’re in the States, and the mail system is broken.

C: True.

K: So yeah, so kind of on the similar front as cronuts, another sort of trend that came out of New York, which is weird cuz it existed before; this food existed before; but it became incredibly popular because of a television program called Sex and the City, and we had—

C: Are you gonna talk about Magnolia Bakery?

K: I’m talkin about cupcakes. That’s exactly what I’m gonna do.

C: Yup. Yup.

K: So I thought that whole thing was very strange, (laughs) because it’s like, cupcakes were a food item way before the show existed, and for some reason because they ate them on the show, all of a sudden cupcakes were like huge—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —and I’m like, what’s happening? (laughs) I don’t understand why it has that sort of cultural power. But yeah, they were like for three or five years, they were like—Magnolia Bakery specifically, but also cupcakes in general—were huge, and I just never got it. Are you a cupcake person?

C: No, and Toshio says, why would you want a smaller cake that costs more? (laughs) 

K: See, exactly. That’s kind of what my feeling was, but I have also too—this is maybe a hot take—but I don’t love cupcakes, because I feel like people go too overboard with the icing and the frosting.

C: Yes. Yes.

K: I’m there for the carbs. I’m there for the cake parts, (laughs) and people are focused on the … you know, and I’m like, first of all that’s too much; secondly, that’s not what I came for. I wanna eat the … I want the bread. (laughs) 

C: Right.

K: You know? So I feel like I’m sorta out of step with everyone else, cuz they’re like super into the frosting and making it look all pretty and stuff. Yes, I agree. Toshio put in the chat “Mini-cupcakes are horrible.” I’m like yes, what’s the point? Just like you said, a smaller cake that costs more, but it’s even smaller. It’s like one bite, and usually incredibly dry. I’m like, no thank you.

C: Again, I’m not a sweets person. If I have a cupcake, I’m like you. I would rather just have the cake part. No frosting, no icing, cuz it tastes so artificial and gross to me.

K: Yeah.

C: They were very fashionable, and during that time I was living in Portland, where we have all of the food carts. I mean other cities have food carts, obviously. But I remember specifically cupcake carts—

K: Mm-hmm.

C: And they were always run by like super twee—

K: (laughs) Yes.

C: —attractive girls in their twenties who just wanna bake cupcakes, and I was just like, I have to leave this city! 

K: I mean, that’s part of it too, I mean I think there’s a little bit related also with the cronut.

Like we were talking about in our popularity episode, there’s like a status associated with it, which … I think that’s true of a lot of trends. They tend to sort of be markers of certain things, and obvsiouly with cupcakes becoming trendy because of Sex and the City, right, they’re sort of like, if you can get cupcakes then you can make your lives look like theirs, and it’s like, well you can’t. Because their life is not real, and you can’t live on that salary and have those apartments and those clothes and all that stuff, so—

C: Yeah.

K: I don’t know. It just was very funny to me that cupcakes became a trend. I’m like, they’ve been around! (laughs) Why now are they becoming a huge deal?

C: Did you ever watch Sex and the City?

K: I have seen like, in my entire life, maybe like three episodes of that show.

C: Three too many.

K: I agree. And I feel bad because, again, it reminds me of the Kardashian thing in that there’s this weird sort of pressure to like things that feature women, and they hint at a kind of feminism, but not really … not really feminism, more like choice feminism. And if you’re not into it, then it’s like somehow you’re bad at being a woman and you’re not supportive or whatever. I’m just like, I don’t care about it. Shows about people and the sex they’re having or not having, I’m like, I don’t care. I have my own problems. (laughs) So yeah, I don’t know.

C: (laughs) I have my own problems.

K: Yeah, exactly. I do, and I’m just like, I can’t get invested in this. But yeah, it was not for me. I’m glad to know I’m not alone though.

C: You’re not.

K: Cuz I definitely feel like it amongst people in our generation.

C: Toshio mentioned in our chat “the cilantro episode.” I don’t remember that.

Toshio: It’s where Carrie fakes being allergic—

C: Oh, yeah!

T: —and I feel like that’s when that popularized that idea that— 

K: Oh, some people just taste it very strongly and have like an aversion to cilantro.

T: Yeah, and then they kind of extend it to … I don’t know, out of some weird social … it’s like a social norm to kind of just be like, oh no I’m allergic.

K: Oh, to stuff you don’t like? Because people accept it? I see.

T: Yeah, yeah. Like salads here in the bay, like when the boutique salad craze kind of started, they had to start like … it was just as gluten-free was becoming a diet, and you know, of course there’s lots of people with gluten allergies out there, but there were a lot of people that … I don’t believe that they had a gluten allergy or had ever been tested.

K: This is something that I had actually put on my list, about dietary preferences vs. dietary restrictions, and how the rise of sort of … you know, the more knowledge about the different food allergies and things like that, that people have now been able to use that as an excuse to sort of be like … cuz as someone who doesn’t like cheese, if I just say like, oh I don’t want cheese, people are like why? But if I say, oh I’m vegan or I’m lactose-intolerant or whatever, then people are like, oh, okay, then that makes sense. (laughs) It’s like, you can’t just say you don’t want it because you don’t like it, which is a very strange thing that we sort of created in our society. And it’s not just with food; it’s also other things as well. But you definitely see it with food, for sure.

C: Have you ever lied and said you are allergic to cheese or something? Just to—

K: I definitely have said I’m lactose-intolerant. I haven’t said I’m vegan, cuz that is easy to … (laughs) it’s easy to tell that I’m lying about that. 

C: Right. (laughs) 

K: You just have to look for like ten more seconds. But I’ve definitely said I’m lactose-intolerant just to—

C: Shut it down.

K: —not have to have a debate, yeah, exactly. I just think it’s bad that people feel like they have to do that. It kinda reminds me of how like if you say like, oh I don’t drink, people want to know why—

C: Why.

K: —like you can’t just say I don’t like it, or—

C: Right. Yeah.

K: You know? (laughs) You have to have had a problem with it, or you have to be allergic or whatever, and it’s just like, some people just have different preferences, and that’s okay. We can just accept it.

C: Speaking of that, I’m ten months sober today.

K: Hey! Congratulations!

C: So I don’t drink. (laughs) 

K: Good! I mean, I don’t either, but mine is just totally a preference thing, like I’ve never liked it—

C: Right. 

K: —and I’m not good at it either.

C: I’m not either, but uh … I mean, I was really, really good at it.

K: (laughs) That’s so awesome!

C: Thank you! 

K: I had no idea. Amazing.

C Oh, yeah. Yeah.

K: I wish we had a little drop of applause to put in there.

C: Clap clap clap clap.

K: I know! (laughs) That’s awesome.

C: Thank you. Okay. So I did not remember this, but apparently in 2015, Pizza Hut introduced a Hot Dog Bites pizza.

K: Oh, I remember this—

C: You remember?

K: —and seeing an image of it and being repulsed. (laughs) Because first of all, I hate hot dogs. 

C: Yes.

K: So I’m like, don’t put them on my pizza! Ugh. They were like little ones, right? They were along the crust?

C: Yeah, they were like little … I mean, to me—

K: Ick. 

C: —oh god. I looked at it and I have to actually turn the picture away. Why? Why? Why do that?

K: I mean, I get it from a like fast-food-arms-race kind of perspective of like, you always have to be thinking of the most … the newest, but also kind of like … I don’t wanna say cutting-edge, cuz hot dogs are not cutting-edge (laughs)— 

C: (laughs) 

K: —but you know, you have to be thinking of like, how can we take things that people already like and sort of integrate them into this thing that we do, even if those things aren’t necessarily thought of as being related to the food that we serve? And it’s just like, hot dogs, obviously people love them. I don’t, but other people do, and I get it, the idea of okay, we can do something with this. But that? Around the crust? I just don’t understand. Why not just be like, we’re serving hot dogs? (laughing) You know what I mean?

C: Yeah.

K: Like, McDonald’s served pizza. Obviously that didn’t work either, but yeah.

C: Yeah. Apparently McDonald’s also tried to serve spaghetti at one point.

K: (laughing) What are they doing?!

C: They called it McSpaghetti, I think.

K: No! They did not. (laughs) 

C: It was something like that, yeah. It was spaghetti … 

K: McSpaghetti. Get outta here, McDonald’s. What are you doing?

C: Yeah. When you think Italian food, you think McDonald’s. 

K: You think McDonald’s!

C: I want a McSpaghetti. Mamma mia!

K: It’s right there in the name. Yeah, it’s like … what?! (laughs) What a weird … but yeah, I get it. They’re trying to do whatever they can to sort of bring, you know, “new” ideas to their menus and I get it, but ew. No. That’s … nuh-uh. 

C: I like how you—

K: I mean, can you imagine buying spaghetti and then being like, okay, I’m gonna take this home! Like, it’s gonna be so disgusting and cold by the time you get—like ew! Nothing grosser. I can’t imagine. Yuck.

C: (laughing) McDonald’s spaghetti. 

K: (laughs) Ugh.

C: That should go in the Museum of Failure.

K: I mean, one hundred percent.

C:  I don’t know if it’s there, but it deserves it.

K: Yeah.

C: Now, Toshio, you just thought of something really good. Can you kind of phrase it for us?

T: I mean, this is just a thing that definitely happens in San Francisco, and in the Bay Area more generally is taking … usually it’s like a cultural appropriation-type thing, where it’s like some semi-known, locally, chef will take like … Southern food was so huge for a long time. Like a really expensive hush puppy five years ago was … you know, you could get one for like twelve dollars in Downtown Oakland or something—

K: (laughs) 

C: Ugh.

T: —and I think that’s too much to pay.

K: It’s funny that you mention that, because I was just talking to my grandma the other day, and in my family, there’s a lot of birthdays in April, for some reason, and like—

C: And Christmas birthdays.

K: Yeah, it’s weird.

C: A lotta Christmas and April. Interesting.

K: It’s very strange. And my cousin … his nickname is Me Hungry. Because when he just comes into my grandma’s house, that’s the first thing he does, is go over to the refrigerator and be like, what is there to eat, you know? (laughs) So his birthday is this month, and he told my grandmother he just wants her to make a bunch of soul food or whatever. So she was telling me how she was trying to grocery shop for everything and like how … there’s this cut of meat called oxtails—

C: Yeah.

K: It’s not ox, but you know, whatever. Again, when we were growing up and younger, they were very cheap, and now they’re so expensive, because they’ve become one of those—like Toshio was saying—a lowbrow “ethnic” food that’s sort of been appropriated, and now people are selling, you know, making it in these fancy restaurants and selling it for a lot. So now my grandma’s trying to go grocery shopping, and she’s like, what the heck? Why am I … yeah, exactly, the offal, kind of like waste-type food, also too—

C: Offal as in O-F-F-A-L offal, not—

K: (laughs) Yes, not A-W-F-U-L. Not terrible. But also things like greens, you know, which again, was a staple for my family—

C: Kale!

K: Exactly. The staples that were cheap—

C: Kale—I’m sorry. Kale used to just be a decoration at the like pizza salad bars.

K: Exactly. It wasn’t the—

C: And now it’s huge. but you’re right, especially just oxtails are … they have become the thing now.

K: It’s very … it’s a bummer. Especially because you see the cycle of they become sort of popular and trendy; and then people who have lots of money start buying it; and then prices go up; and then the people for whom those were staple, or like regular kinds of foods that they ate all the time, become less affordable, and that’s like a huge problem. So yeah, it’s a very weird kind of thing that happens, but yeah, that’s also super, super common. But yeah guys, don’t make my grandma spend a lot of money. That’s rude. 

C: That is rude. 

K: (laughing) Like stop making her food unaffordable!

C: What were some of your other trends?

K: Yeah, so I … when we thought of this topic, my mind immediately went to … I’m sure you also had an experience with this, cuz again, we’re same—similar age. But the first kind of flop food thing that I thought of was Crystal Pepsi. I mean, obviously I thought of that because when it was a thing, it was like a huge … it was called Crystal Pepsi and my name is Krystal, and so that was a big thing—

C: Ding ding.

K: Yeah, (laughs) so I remember it but I remember being like, I can’t imagine how that’s gonna taste. I remember seeing it and being like, how is it gonna—because in your mind, right, you think of cola as brown, like that’s just how it is. So I was like, is it gonna have a weird aftertaste, like I just couldn’t imagine what it was like, and I remember … we’re not a Pepsi family; we’re a Coke family, so it was not gonna be in my house—

C: Correct. Correct.

K: Exactly. you know what’s up. But I remember we had a pizza party at school for something. I forget—I think it was like Oregon Trail or something—

C: Wait, what? (laughs)

K: (laughs) Well, we had finished it, like we had finished the simulation, so it was like, yay,

we’re gonna you know, people who survived or whatever—

C: Pizza party! Yeah!

K: Yeah. Like, we’re havin a pizza party—

C: No dysentery!

K: Yeah, exactly. It was—I forget. It was some group of my class, and we had made it to the end or whatever. So we had a pizza party and my teacher showed up with like a two-liter of that, and we completely just lost it. We’re like, oh my god, this is gonna be so cool. We’re gonna get some Crystal Pepsi … and it just tasted like Pepsi.

C: Yeah. It was clear.

K: Yeah, I know! I was like, I don’t know why this is a letdown! This is what I kind of wanted, but also like … okay, you know, (laughs) it was not a big deal. And so that’s like one of the first ones that I remember being like, oh my gosh it’s huge; it’s gonna change everything for cola, and then it just like went away. (laughs) Everyone was like, nope, we want our cola to be brown. I’m sorry. This is not acceptable. So yeah, that’s the first one that came to mind for me, was Crystal Pepsi.

C: Oh, yeah. You know, so back in the day … number one, I’m glad you’re a Coke family, cuz Pepsi’s gross. 

K: It’s disgusting.

C: I remember growing up and, you know, going to the mall, cuz that’s what you do. And we went to the mall and they were having this contest with Pepsi where you had to do a taste test—

K: Oh yeah.

C: —and you would taste a sample of Coke and sample of Pepsi—

K: Yeah, the Pepsi challenge. Mm-hmm.

C: The Pepsi challenge. And then you had to, in my case, lie and say that you preferred Pepsi. And then you got a little card, and I don’t remember why this was such a huge thing, but I remember being so nervous waiting in line being like, oh my god. If I don’t get this right … (laughs) 

K: (laughs) 

C: And I don’t know why … like what you’re supposed to win other than getting this card, but I was so nervous.

K: But what is the card? Is it like a gift card, or is it just like a thing that says you passed the Pepsi challenge or whatever?

C: I don’t know! I think, yeah. It was probably something just yeah, being like, you know, I won this, and—

K: (laughs) Okay.

C: We were … yeah. We didn’t have a lot of money for entertainment, so that’s what we did.

K: I mean, I respect it.

C: Drink Pepsi, and … (laughs) 

K: (laughs) I mean, maybe you thought you were gonna be on TV, cuz I remember there were those commercials about the Pepsi challenge where they would go to, like you’re saying, malls or whatever, and they’d have people being like, oh my gosh, I didn’t know that was Pepsi. It’s like, how did you not know? They taste totally different to me. 

C: Yeah.

K: They have very distinct tastes, and … I don’t know, maybe people just wanted to be on TV.

C: You say cola.

K: Do I?

C: What do you say, Tosh?

K: I say soda.

C: Well, you just said cola.

K: I mean, when I was talking about colas, I kinda was talking specifically about that category of soda, like brown … you know, sodas that … I don’t know, are colas? What even makes a cola vs. a soda?

C: We just call everything Coke here.

K: I was gonna say, like Southern people just call everything Coke even when it’s not Coke, so … (laughs) 

C: We just say Cokes. 

K: I’m with that as well. I could get with that.

C: I derailed that. I apologize to you.

K: (laughs) No, it’s fair. It’s fair. 

C: Well, I was reading up on the … maybe you’ll remember cuz it was kinda recent, but the Chipotle queso debacle, where—

K: What was the debacle? 

C: Yeah, they introduced a cheese dip, aka queso, in the Chipotles franchise. Apparently it was in 2017. And one—I’m quoting—one disgusted Twitter user called it “dumpster juice.”

K: (laughs) Oh, no.

C: I did not try the cheese dip. I remember it coming out and being like, yes, finally! Cuz cheese dip is so huge here, and I like … we have talked about it, but I edited it out cuz it’s me going on for like ten minutes about Velveeta cheese dip that we make here.

K: (laughs) 

C: But I never tried the Chipotle [cheese dip], but I remember hearing it was really disgusting. But apparently now they’re gonna redo it, and they’re trying again, Chipotle is. Chipotle, I do enjoy, though they’ve had their fair share of blunders. Lots of—

K: People getting sick?

C: —I don’t know if it’s salmonella—

K: I think it was E. coli.

C: E. coli. Okay.

K: I think. If I recall correctly. But I mean, it was one of the bad things. (laughs) 

C: It was one of many.

K: I don’t think I’ve been to Chipotle since I was in college, like literally. It’s weird. I remember it being like a huge thing in the like, you know, mid- to late- 2000’s. Everyone was like, oh my gosh, Chipotle, and I was like okay, lemme try it, and I was like … (whispers) it’s fine.

C: Yeah. (laughs) 

K: It’s fine. I mean, coming from Central California, where you have a really big Latinx—also, you know, a lot of people from Central America, South America, there’s like a really big … I mean, same as the Bay Area as well; there’s a big taco culture—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —and lots of burrito culture, so when it’s like, you go to a place where it’s like the fast food version of that, you’re like okay, I could find like twenty-five restaurants in my hometown (laughs) that do whatever this is so much better.

C: Yeah. For sure. (laughs) 

K: But yeah, I was very unimpressed by Chipotle the first time I had it.

C: As you should be. It’s really not that good.

K: It’s fine. I mean, a lot of white rice. (laughs) 

C: It’s fine. Right.

K: There’s a lot of white rice.

C: (laughs) 

K: The one other one I thought of that sort of intersects with internet culture and kind of the intense rise of memes in the last decade or so, but like … remember when everybody was obsessed with bacon

C: Yes.

K: —for like … whatever, two years or something? (laughs) 

C: A long time.

K: It was very weird, and like … it was everywhere. And I don’t know what the sort of impetus for it was, like maybe it was some blog or a TV show—like a cooking show? I don’t remember what started it, but once it got going, it was just like … everything was bacon. Epic bacon everything. Like there were all these intense recipes, like you’ll see now the sort of brand Tasty does all of these recipe videos. As somebody who doesn’t eat bacon, this whole thing was very … I was watching from the sidelines (laughs), but it was very intense. There was one recipe I saw where it was just like … okay, so it was like a pork loin, and then like bacon-wrapped pork loin, but it was not just one layer of bacon. It was like a braided covering of bacon—

K: Mm-hmm.

C: And it was like … I remember watching it and at every step being more and more horrified (laughs) by what I was seeing … like a Turducken of bacon, exactly. It was way too much. But yeah, I remember it just being like … it just set the internet on fire when people discovered that like, oh, you can make recipes with bacon!

C: They can.

K: It’s like (laughs), yeah, people have been doing it for literal centuries. 

C: Well, Burger King introduced the Bacon Sundae in 2012.

K: No they didn’t!

C: That was a failure, yeah. I think that was a failure.

K: (groans) I mean, it should be. That’s disgusting, first of all. (laughs) 

C: It is.

K: It was seriously everywhere. It was like the internet version of cupcakes where like, cupcakes were more of a real-world thing, where it felt like bacon sort of was proliferating from home cooks, and … yeah. It was just very … I don’t know. It was (laughs) … it was a time, for sure, on the internet, where I was like, I don’t understand any of this. Yeah. It seems to have gone away in the last few years, which is interesting. I would be intrigued to know … I don’t know. Thinking about why it’s gone away and what kind of has replaced it, it feels like—

C: Cauliflower.

K: Well, the thing that I—that’s a good one. People love their riced cauliflower and cauliflower crust and I’m like, get outta here with that! I want the carbs. That’s what I’m here for.

C: (laughs) 

K: But like … yeah, I don’t know. I was trying to think about the wellness sort of … the rise of wellness and wellness culture kinda killed (laughs) any epic bacon whatever that was happening.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: And I don’t know, I think that’s just really interesting, how it just came and it was everywhere for like two years, three years, maybe longer, and then now it’s like, no! Everyone’s doing their cleanses and they’ve got their, you know, zucchini spirals or whatever (laughs)—I don’t know what people eat—that are healthy.

C: So this one was not a trend, but this was a flop, and I don’t remember this at all. But apparently Colgate, the toothpaste company, tried out frozen food dinners, including lasagna.

K: (laughs) Wait! 

C: So you could get Colgate lasagna—

K: Okay. So … I mean, don’t even—

C: It was not successful, as you can imagine.

K: Yeah. So was the idea … did it have any relation to like—

C: Toothpaste?

K: —you know, dental health or whatever?

C: No.

K: (laughs) Like I don’t understand the correlation. Why did they think they should get into the game?

C: I guess just diversify their revenue streams.

K: (laughing) But they make toothpaste! It’s not like they make a different kind of food—

C: No.

K: —and they were like, yeah, let’s do this! (laughs) 

C: Cosmopolitan Magazine also tried to get into the game. 

K: Mm. That makes sense.

C: This is very on-brand. Just take a guess at what one of their products was. It makes so much sense.

K: Some kinda like … diet drink or something? 

C: Yogurt! Yogurt. 

K: Oh, yeah. (laughs) That’s funny. That was a very trendy thing for a little bit too.

C: They tried to do yogurt. (laughs) 

K: That was a very trendy thing for a little bit too.

C: Oh, yeah.

K: I feel like it started in the 80’s, of people eating yogurt,v and then in the 90’s and 2000’s it became the like Greek yogurt and like low-fat yogurt—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —and I’m just like, what’s the point if it doesn’t have the fat? You’re defeating the purpose! But yeah.

C: Then they did Go-Gurt! Remember Go-Gurt?

K: (laughs) Yes. 

C: It was like a tube of yogurt.

K: It was in a tube. That was for kids, and I’m like, that I kind of see. Cuz I’m like, it’s on the go! Yogurt on the go. (laughs) 

C: I find that so repulsive.

K: I love the idea of it.

C: Just like a tube of yogurt?

K: I think it’s hilarious. I don’t know why.

C: I think it’s hilarious and disgusting.

K: I know, but that’s what I like about it. I’m not … again, I’m very weird about dairy. (laughs) You can drive and eat yogurt at the same time!

C: (laughs) 

K: Yeah, that’s what they were thinking. They were like, people love yogurt, but they wanna eat it while they’re driving. How can we solve that problem?!

C: I mean, we’re so busy. We don’t have time to eat our yogurt. How do we simplify this?

K: (laughing) It’s so funny! Yeah, the yogurt thing is very weird, like the Jamie Lee Curtis of it all. Like yeah, now it’s sort of been rebranded as this thing that you eat for health—not just health, to be healthy and get your servings of dairy, but to you know, actually not eat something with more calories or more sugar or whatever. It’s like, ugh. Why can’t a food just be a thing that you eat?

C: Why can’t it—yeah. and why was, speaking of Jamie Lee Curtis and yogurt, with Activia, why was that supposed to make you poop? I wish we could get Jamie Lee on this podcast, cuz I have some questions.

K: (laughs) I wanna ask her about being in Trading Places. That’s what I wanna talk about. But we could also talk about Activia too, I guess. 

Um, let’s see. We sort of also related to the Crystal Pepsi flop. We sorta talked about New Coke.

C: Yeah, New Coke!

K: Which I think we were both too young for that, like we both know it—I mean, at least I know it as a punch line of a joke—

C: Right.

K: Or, you know, from TV shows and whatnot, so I never got to try it, but I always really wanted to. And I wonder if there’s a—

C: eBay.

K: I know, that’s—I was like, but what … is that dangerous?

C: Probably. Do you really wanna drink however old-years’ soda?

K: No, I don’t. But I am interested—I wonder if you go to the Coke Museum in Georgia, if they have it there. Because they have all kinds of different flavors, like—

C: Yeah.

K: —formulas of Coke, like different … ones that are made for different parts of the world and stuff, and so I’m like, I wonder if they have New Coke there. I would love to taste it.

C: I bet they do. I bet they do. Coke also came out with a product called Coke BlāK, or Black Coke that was a mixture of coffee and Coke.

K: Yeah, with caffeine in it. With more caffeine in it (laughs), which is like, what are you guys trying to do? We already have Surge. What was that soda with all the caffeine in it? I can’t remember what it was called.

C: 4Loko?

K: (laughs) Did 4Loko have caffeine? Oh my gosh.

C: Monster? Rockstars?

K: Rockstar, yes, for sure, like the energy drink stuff. You don’t need to … you already have plenty of caffeine, Coke. You’re good to go.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: Yeah, I’m trying to think, did I … I think another—the only other thing that I sort of thought of that was related to the dietary preferences vs. dietary restrictions was like the rise of low-fat and fat-free foods in the 90’s and stuff.

C: Mm. Mm-hmm.

K: I remember the advertising for that ramping up really hard, to the point where I, a person who did not care about being on a diet or whatever, was like, I should try those SnackWell’s cookies, like they make them sound really good. (laughs) And I remember trying them and being like … ew, these are disgusting! They were so dry, and they were tiny, and I don’t know. It was just so … but the advertising really worked on me, like it was everywhere all the time, and … yeah. Now there’s a fat-free and low-fat version of almost anything, you know, any product, but that didn’t use to be the case. So yeah, it just kind of has become more and more—and we’ve seen—speaking of flops, we’ve seen other flops in that arena as well. Another podcast we both listen into, I think, Maintenance Phase—it’s a great podcast. It’s by Michael Hobbes, who hosts You’re Wrong About, and Aubrey … oh, I can’t think of her last name, but she tweets as @YrFatFriend on Twitter, and she’s like a writer about weight and, you know, diet industry and all that stuff, and they have a podcast called Maintenance Phase about diet culture and whatnot, and they did a podcast about both SnackWell’s and Olestra, which—

C: Oh, god. Speaking of poop.

K: —you know, was a product—well, I would recommend listening to that episode, because they really get into sort of actually the—

C: Am I wrong about it?

K: Mm … I don’t think you’re wrong; I think the way that the news about that was sort of presented was a little bit misleading, because it did definitely happen, like it wasn’t made up, for sure. Olestra was an additive to … I think it [was] just chips in the 90’s, and it was supposed to be like, oh, there’s no fat in these chips. You can eat as many as you want! And they like totally flopped as well, because I think yeah, like Caitlin was mentioning, there was some uh … I won’t use the phrasing that they use.

C: Anal issues. 

K: (laughs) Yeah … some bowel problems.

C: I think they called it anal leakage.

K: Yes. Exactly.

C: Anal leakage. I’m sorry.

K: I wasn’t gonna say it! (laughs) I was hoping we could avoid it. But nope, you went there.

C: I did. Well, another thing was another one of the fast food restaurants—I can’t remember which one—they were trying to do—I think it was Burger King. They tried to make lower-fat French fries, and they use Olestra. And people got … ill.

K: Problems. Yeah.

C: In the way that I just mentioned.

K: Yes. Yes I think that the issue … basically what they talked about on Maintenance Phase was that like testing for these kind of additives or whatever, it doesn’t account for actual human behavior, you know? And so if you’re telling people you have this product that’s fat-free, people are gonna think they can eat as much as they want without any kind of negative repercussions, because it has no fat and that’s what they really care about. But it’s like, well, if you eat the entire family-sized bag of Olestra Lay’s, or you eat two large fries made with Olestra, that’s gonna cause some problems that maybe aren’t necessarily related to the additive and are more about psychology, you know? (laughs) And how we actually interact with food that is low-fat or “good” for us. So yeah, that was sort of the only other thing I was thinking about like fat-free and low-fat food. I’m not really a person who buys any of that. The only fat-free thing that I actually buy all the time regularly is skim milk, but that’s only cuz I hate milk, but I like to eat cereal, so (laughs)

C: Oh.

K: —I want something that’s like milk, but not like … not so like glue like whole milk. 

C: To me, milk is really gross. 

K: (laughing) So gross.

C: I can’t remember if I’ve tried oatmilk or not. Oatmilk is so hot right now.

K: It’s just oil. It’s just oil, basically, (laughs) and sugar. Apparently. I’m sure there are so many other trends that we like miss out on

C: There are so many other trends, yeah. It’s impossible to go over everything in the short amount of time that we have.

K: Yeah. I feel like I see a lot of things bubbling up on Instagram, now that I’m on Instagram. There was that whole thing with the cakes that look like they have been like—

C: Oh yeah! 

K: You know what I’m talking about, those cakes?

C: Yeah, cakes that don’t—cakes that you think they’re something else and then you cut ‘em and it’s cake?

K: Oh, yeah, that was fun! I liked that though. (laughs) Everyone just was like losing it over how realistic they looked and how the videos kept coming out, and you’re like, how are there so many things that look like cake that—

C: Are not cake. Right.

K: —that don’t look like cake that are cake? That was fun. That was a fun time on the social media. You can tweet at us about other trends that we did not talk about, because I know there are a ton. Oh, one thing—(scoffs) why do all of mine revolve around soda? I don’t know. But I was wondering if you—cuz you lived in Portland for awhile. Was Jones Soda like a big thing when you guys were there still?

C: Yeah.

K: Okay.

C: I think it might have been local.

K: Yeah. I think it is. I think it’s from either there or Seattle.

C: Yeah.

K: I can’t remember which place; it’s definitely from the Pacific Northwest. But I remember that being a huge trend, because they had all those sodas that were flavored with weird stuff.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: So they had like, I remember for me the reason I thought about it was because I remember we had a bet with someone. We bought one of those  … the turkey … the Thanksgiving one that was like turkey and gravy-flavored

C: Oof.

K: —and like bet someone (laughs) that they couldn’t drink the whole thing, and we won that bet because he totally puked it up everywhere.

C: (gasps) Ohh.

K: It was fun. That’s what we wanted to happen. (laughs) So it was like … that was ultimate goal reached.

C: (laughs)

K: But yeah, that was another … just the other one that I thought about. Those like alt-sodas like OK Soda and Jones Soda. 

C: Right. Yeah. 

K: I don’t think those things exist anymore now. I think people are like anti-soda. So I don’t think they—

C: They may be.

K: Not like generally speaking, but I think like cool people, like trendy people, don’t drink soda anymore. They drink … what, kombucha? (laughs) I don’t know what people drink.

C: Oatmilk. Oatmilk.

K: Yeah. They drink oatmilk and kombucha and like, so much water that they poison themselves.

C: Yeah.

K: But yeah. That’s all I had, I think.

C: Well, thank you for this scintillating conversation. 

K: Yeah! it was fun.

C: I think we should move on now to fan favorite Two Cents, No Tax.

K: I’m very interested in these, because I feel like … some of these I feel like are specific to you as a person, knowing what I know about you, will have opinions, but some of these are just generally, I’m like, I wonder what Caitlin thinks!

C: Okay. 

K: So the first one, we were just talking about it a second ago, but—

C: Oh!

K: How do you feel about coffee?

C: Oh. A necessity in life, coffee. Especially now that I don’t drink anymore, it’s like what I need, a beverage to look forward to drinking.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: That’s not alcoholic. So I do drink a lot of club soda. But yeah, I look forward to drinking coffee every morning, and I drink quite a lot of it. It is a treat that I definitely look forward to in the morning. (singing) The best part of wakin’ up … yeah. Thank you Toshio, for—

K: Oh, my god, that was a song in my house for so long.

C: Um, I kinda love that little jingle—

K: The jingle? Yeah, it’s great! It’s really good.

C: It’s nice. It’s a nice lil jingle. And remember the … the coffee commercials with the women—they’re two friends—with Jean-Luc! Do you … no one knows what I’m talkin about where they’re like two women—

K: No! (laughs) 

C: It was … okay. It was in the 90’s and it was two women, and they would … you know, meet for coffee on the commercials, and they’re best friends, and they’re drinking coffee—

K: (gasps) Oh, yes.

C: —and they’re like, remember that handsome waiter we had in Paris? And then they’re like (gasps) Jean-Luc! And the commercials—that became so popular that then it became a series.

K: Of those commercials? 

C: Yeah! In the commercials. And I think Jean-Luc even like made an appearance, I wanna say. I might be misremembering that, but

K: (laughs) No, it looks like you’re right! Apparently it was like a big deal. I do remember the brand of coffee that they’re talking about, the International—

C: What was it?

K: It’s International Coffee, like General Foods International Coffee.

C: Yes!

K: So they had like, French Vanilla, and all those fancy … yes. I remember those commercials. That was a series? I guess that makes sense.

C: I remember being like a kid watching that, and clearly it made an impression on me. I think I was just like, god, these women are like, best friends, and they’re just, you know—

K: (laughs) 

C: —like I love this!

K: Like, this could be my life when I grow up! Talkin with my friends over coffee. Yeah. 

C: Right? Right, like drinking coffee. Yeah. Being an adult and gossiping with my girlfriend about this handsome waiter, yeah.

K: (laughs) It’s so funny. So funny.

C: Um, but yeah! Coffee, for sure needed.

K: Okay. Cool. So this other one, I’m interested in your take because … I got thinking about it because I miss going to shows. 

C: Mm-hmm.

K: I’ve not been to a show in over a year, and I’m just like, remember live music? But in the 90’s and early 2000’s there was a whole movement around not being “that guy.” So when you go to a show wearing the T-shirt of the band you’re about to see, how do you feel about “being that guy”?

C: So going to a show and wearing the T-shirt of that band?

K: Yeah.

C: You know what? If that makes you feel good, I say do it.

K: (laughing) Okay.

C: I don’t care. I’m … you know, I’m turning thirty-nine in a couple weeks, remember? My birthday is May 1st—

K: Mm-hmm.

C: —just a reminder, and you don’t have to get me anything, even though I am ten months sober now through a pandemic!

K: (laughs) You can’t … wait a minute. This is … 

C: I’m just saying I deserve a little prezzie. 

K: Okay. (laughs) 

C: So, you know, I’m comin up on forty. If it makes you happy, who cares? 

K: I—my thing about it is I never knew it was a thing, like I never—well first of all, you know, I don’t come from money, and so I’ve never owned any like merch, like band merch—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —so that was never gonna be a thing that I would ever be guilty of. But also, I never thought of it as a bad thing. I’m like, well you’re going to see that band. Why not wear their shirt? I don’t know. But yeah, it became a big sticking point—

C: I didn’t know.

K: —where people would be very judgy about it, and I was like, what? I don’t understand. Okay. Cool. 

C: Hmm. I had no idea.

K: Yeah, I think it came from that movie … what was it, PCU? With like Jeremy Piven—

C: Ugh.

K: —from like the 90’s or whatever. Yeah, apparently people were like, it’s trying too hard to prove—

C: Who cares?! Shut up! 

K: —but I’m like, you’re at a show! You’re at their show! I don’t understand. Anyway, yeah, so being that guy—you’re for it. Okay. That’s good to know. I agree, especially if you’re liking something. Like it’s okay to like things.

C: Right? Like, stop shitting on people liking things. 

K: Yeah. So, okay. My next one—I’m really interested to hear what you think about this, because you’re from the South, and I’m sure you have opinions. But what is your Two Cents, No Tax on Florida?

C: You’re setting me up!

K: I need to know! (laughing) I just … I need to know. 

C: Okay. Well, I mean where to start? Where to start?

K: (laughs) I know.

C: Lemme start off with this. So I’m from Arkansas, where, you know, I get made fun of all the time. All the time people make fun of Arkansas, and like, whatever. So I think I’m sensitive to that. My mother, though, talks shit on every other Southern state. 

K: (laughs) 

C: She’ll be like, ick, Alabama. I’m like, what are you talking about? 

K: (laughs) I mean, that’s what you have to do!

C: And like she will talk so—and she talks shit on Florida all the time. I’m like, dude, we’re in Arkansas. We really don’t have much leverage here. So, Florida is fascinating to me. I think it would be so weird to live … not just Florida, but any area where it’s very touristy.

K: Mm. Mm-hmm.

C: Especially like Southern beach, because Florida is the South, but then you have … it’s like the South in a lot of areas where it is the South but then it’s also not. Like you know, I don’t consider … Miami is technically the South, but it’s not the South.

K: Right. It’s a different … it’s a different thing entirely. Yeah.

C: It’s different cultures, and I mean … what is going on in Florida? Why?

K: (laughs) That’s what everyone wants to know! That’s what I’m asking.

C: Why is it so … like why is it like this? I have been to really, really beautiful parts of Florida.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: Like the Gulf Coast? Amazing. But then you also get … the very redneck Florida, and scary, and as Toshio just posted, it’s probably going to be underwater in our lifetimes. Yeah, so like—

K: California too, so that’s cool. (laughs) 

C: All the people making fun of Floridians, like they are gonna be moving in closer to where we live. So you better be nice! Once Florida gets underwater, they’re moving in next to us.

K: This is not where I expected this to go. (laughs) But I like it.

C: Yeah. Speaking of Florida, Toshio sent me—which I still need to watch—but he sent me a show starring Laci Mosley, who hosts the Scam Goddess podcast that I love—

K: Oh! Mm-hmm.

C: And she stars in a show called Florida Girls that I need to watch, and Toshio—

K: Is it a reality show?

C: No, no, it’s a comedy show.

K: Oh, okay. I’ve never heard of it.

Toshio: No. It’s a sitcom. It’s a must-see. I will send you … it’s impossible to find online cuz it was relegated to this channel that I don’t even know if it exists anymore called Pop—with an exclamation—

K: Oh yeah, PopTV!

C: PopTV!

T: It’s four girls, but like the opposite of Sex and the City

C: Mm-hmm.

K: (laughs) 

T: The creator and I think the principal, you know, showrunner is from Florida. I think it’s hilarious. Maybe it’s too sarcastic for the US audience, like too many class-related jokes.

K: Mm-hmm. I definitely wanna watch this show. It looks good.

C: Yeah, Florida Girls. What do you think of Florida?

K: I don’t … I only know it from the sort of common pop culture opinion of it, which is that it’s like this weird Wild West state where just like the most ridiculous off-the-wall things are happening all the time.

C: Yeah.

K: And then it also has like Disneyworld, you know? (laughs) And Miami. Those are the three things that I know about Florida. I don’t … I’ve never been there. I don’t know. It’s just such an interesting place that I’m like it’s one of those places probably, kind of like California, where like, people have an impression of it, but there are so many different parts that it’s hard to ever really get a sense of the whole thing. Because my idea of California is very different from somebody who’s born and raised in Northern California or born and raised in the Inland Empire or something. So I don’t know. I think it’s a funny place. I think I would like to go to Florida at some point. 

C: I had a very traumatic trip to Disneyworld as a kid. I got my head stuck between these bars, this fence, and it got caught on camera. 

K: (laughs) 

C: They videotaped me screaming with my head between the bars of the fence. And I went on Thunder Mountain Railroad against my will. My glasses flew off of my face. I was scream-crying the whole time.

K: Oh, Caitlin.

C: Yeah. I know.

K: I’m trying not to laugh, like to be in solidarity with you, but I’m just like …

C: Oh, it’s funny. No, it’s funny! It’s funny.

K: That’s hilarious. I mean, it’s sad. I’m sorry that happened to you, but it sounds so funny. (laughs) 

C: No, it’s okay.

K: Okay, so my last thing is just … it’s not as interesting a topic as Florida, for sure, but what’s your Two Cents, No Tax on karaoke?

C: Fun. I have not been to karaoke in years, but I’ve had some good, good times at karaoke. How bout you?

K: It kind of seems like a nightmare to me.

C: Does it? (laughs) 

K: So my thing with karaoke, and with lots of other kinds of like pop culture stuff, is that I feel like I get really bad secondhand embarrassment really easily, and so that’s why I can’t do like cringe comedy and stuff like that, or certain reality TV shows, cuz it just makes me feel too—I feel embarrassed for people. I feel it too intensely. And so I feel like with karaoke, I’m like, what if people are bad? That would be really bad. But also I’m like, okay, what if they sing songs that I hate? And I don’t want that either.

C: Yeah.

K: So I just am like … I’ve never been, because it seems like I would not be able to handle it well, but even so, I still have like, here’s a list of songs I think I would be good at doing at karaoke but I’m never going to do. 

C: Well, yeah, you could do private room karaoke.

K: But that’s the same—I don’t think it would be … even if I were with friends, like my own friends, even if they were bad, I still think I would feel the cringe too much, and so it’d be like … but I guess in that, it would be like, oh, we’re all just having fun. But yeah, I don’t know if I’d be able to turn it off.

C: What songs would you do?

K: Okay. So here’s my list of songs that I think of (laughs) that I’m never gonna do. Number one is a song where people are like, what even is that, but do you remember the song I Know by Dionne Farris

C: (singing) I know what you’re doin!

K: Yes! Oh my god, I love that song so much. 

C: Yes!

K: It’s such a forgettable song, but I just think it’s so fun to sing like when I’m at home by myself, so (laughs)

C: Who was in Arrested Development.

K: Yeah, exactly! People don’t remember that, cuz it was a very different look that she had when she was solo than like what Arrested Development was doing.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: But yeah, so that song is like my number one that I would pick, and then I was like, maybe like a Soundgarden song. I don’t know which one. Maybe like “Black Hole Sun” or something, because I’d wanna bring it down.

C: Do you have a four-octave range?

K: No, but that’s—see, but I had to pick a song where he’s not doing the like—

C: He goes—no, he goes high on … (warbling in falsetto) black hole sun

K: No, but he’s not doing … I think I would be able to reach that, as a woman, you know?

C: Mmkay. 

K: I think my voice would be able to get there. But I don’t know. Maybe not. We’ll see. But yeah. Oh, you know what? The other one I thought was like “Fell On Black Days” would be probably good too, cuz it doesn’t do a lot of that in that song, either.

C: That’s a really good song. I love “Fell On Black Days.”

K: Yeah. It’s a banger. So that one, and then probably like … do they do—do people do hip-hop at karaoke?

C: Yes! 

K: Okay. If so, then I’m gonna do like the Clipse song “Mr. Me Too” cuz that’s like my favorite Clipse song.

C: Okay. 

K: I think they’re incredible. And then probably like “Santeria” by Sublime. (laughs) 

C: (laughs) 

K: Just cuz that’s the best song to like scream-sing. It’s so fun. It’s a terrible song, but I love it so much. It just reminds me of being like sixteen and my best friend having her license and us, you know, finally being able to go places by ourselves. And just putting that song on the radio and just screaming along to it. Just so, so fun.

C: Yeah.

K: So yeah. Those are what I would do if I did karaoke, but I never will, so that will never happen.

C: Well, never say never.

K: No, I’m saying never, (laughs) because—

C: And I’m saying never say never.

K: Mm, I’m gonna say it, because I’m not gonna do it.

C: Alright. Well those are good topics. I like those.

K: Aw, thanks!

C: Thank you! So Krystal, what are you listening to, reading, watching, etc. this week?

K: Again, I am the person who showed up not having read a book. Um, so I have been watching the … also, I feel like every time we do this, at least for the last three weeks or so, I shill for HBO Max cuz I’m like, I’m watching this thing on HBO Max! But I just think they have like the best catalogue of stuff right now, because they have like a lot of old things, but also a lot of originals, but then like a really, really, really good catalogue of movies, which I feel like weirdly a lot of the streaming things don’t have unless they’re Disney Plus, but then also I don’t care about Disney Plus. So yeah, I watched this show on HBO Max called Made for Love, which—I think we were texting about it, Caitlin. It stars Cristin Milioti, and I don’t know if people know who she is. If you watched the movie Palm Springs on Hulu, she played the woman—

C: Protagonist.

K: Yeah, protagonist, in that movie with Andy Samberg, and I love her. I don’t know … I saw her in Fargo, Season 2, and I loved her in that, but I never really—

C: Who was she in Fargo?

K: She played … in Season 2, she played Patrick Wilson’s wife, who was like the—

C: Yes! Oh my god.

K: —she was like … had cancer. Yeah.

C: Yeah! I did not even connect that to her.

K: Mm-hmm. I know, cuz she looks very different. Obviously cuz she’s playing someone from the seventies, and also she like … you know, had cancer in that role. So she is in Made for Love. She plays a woman who’s married to a tech billionaire. They live in this compound, and they’ve been married for like a decade, and he’s basically your epitome of a tech bro who thinks technology can be used to sort of optimize everything in their lives, and so he … there’s this chip that they can implant into people that will make them have perfect relationships. And because their marriage is kind of floundering, he’s like, hmm, maybe we should do this. And then she’s like, I don’t know, let me think about it or whatever, and then he implants it into her head without telling her, and that’s—this is not spoiler-y. 

C: Yeah.

K: This is like the first episode. This is the premise of the show. And so she basically is like okay, I have to get out of this situation. And so she bolts from that compound, which she’s lived at for like ten years, and you learn that they sort of had this impulsive, kind of whirlwind dating relationship where they got married … I don’t know, right after they met? So their whole marriage is them learning about each other and stuff. And so she splits and ends up back in her hometown with her father, played by Ray Romano, and he’s like— He has his own things. He has his own situation happening. There’s like a whole like sex doll thing and— 

C: Yeah. This is where I was like, I don’t know.

K: No, it’s good! I promise it’s a good—it makes it sound like it’s not a comedy, but it’s totally a dark comedy, and it’s really good, and I love Cristin Milioti. I would watch her in ten thousand shows.

C: Yeah.

K: I don’t know how it’s taken this long for her to finally get these really interesting, good roles, but I’m really happy that she’s getting them. I know she was kind of like … there was kind of a push to make her a thing after she was the mom in How I Met Your Mother.

C: Mm.

K: But she was only in like two episodes of that show or whatever, so it didn’t really work out. And she had some failed sitcoms with  other people, but yeah. I’m really enjoying this renaissance for her, because she’s so good. And if you haven’t seen Palm Springs, I also would recommend seeing that.

C: That one’s really good, yeah.

K: Ugh! (laughing) It’s so good! I was so mad! People didn’t like … weren’t talking about it the way I wanted them to talk about it last year. I thought it was so incredible, but I think Andy Samberg just makes people feel a certain way, which … I get it, but—

C: I love Andy Samberg.

K: I do too. And as a Berkeley person, I’m like, I kinda feel like I have to love him, cuz he’s from there, and … you know, whatever.

C: Yeah. That’s true. 

K: But yeah, she’s great, and Made for Love is great. It has nine episodes, I think, and they were dropping them sort of in chunks, but they just dropped the last batch on Thursday, so if you wanna watch the whole thing on HBO Max, you can now. But that’s what I’ve been watching. I’m, again … (laughs) I’m a shill for HBO Max, and I have not read a book, so (laughs) I don’t have anything literate to offer here. What about you, Caitlin?

C: So this week I have been catching up on Good Girls on Hulu—

K: Oh yeah!

C: —which I think is a very underrated show. It’s got Christina Hendricks, who I’ve been in love with for many years now—

K: She’s so beautiful.

C: She’s so beautiful. (sighs) And Retta and Mae Whitman and Manny Montana, who is also a very attractive man—

K: Oh my gosh. Ugh, yeah. He’s just—

C: Oof!

K: I remember I started—I watched that whole first season and the second season of that show, and this was when it was on—I mean it’s still on NBC, but no one was talking about it then. And I remember tweeting with someone like, how is no one talking about this show, because Manny Montana is like (laughs) the hottest person I’ve ever seen.

C: Oh, my god. No, and they—

K: He’s so scary and hot. I love it. 

C: Yes. He’s got that intimidating swagger. He’s got fake neck tattoos. 

K: Yeah. Ridiculous. 

C: Just … I like it. I like Manny Montana, and the sexual tension between him and Christina—

K: Oh, my god. So good. 

C: —I’m like, yes. This is not a … yes. I want to watch both of you. 

K: The first time they were in a scene together, I was like, why aren’t they kissing yet? Like it’s just so (laughs)— 

C: I know. Yeah. (laughs) 

K: You just … it’s so good. Ugh. So, so good.

C: Also, Matthew Lillard is really good on that show.

K: (laughs) Yeah?

C: And this season—I was telling you, it’s like a[n] 80’s reunion with Andrew McCarthy and Jonathan Silverman, who were—you may remember, starred in Weekend at Bernie’s together. So they have been on the show, and actually … I was like, you know, anytime that kind of happens, I’m a little like, eh, but it was actually cute, and they were both good.

K: Yeah.

C: And Lauren Lapkus, who we have talked about on the show, she’s been on all season—

K: Oh my gosh!

C: —and I think … I can’t remember. Just so you know, my sense of time within quarantine is just completely illusory.

K: (laughs) Yeah.

C: So I can’t remember if she was on last season or not, but she’s had a really good arc playing someone in the FBI, and she’s—Lauren Lapkus is hilarious.

K: She’s kinda makin a name for that—

C: She is.

K: —cuz that’s who she was in Orange Is the New Black. She was playing one of the guards and stuff, so I think that’s like a thing she does now. (laughs)

C: I know. She’s in that, and last season also had Ione Skye, who you remember from Say Anything.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: So anyway, I’ve been catching up on Good Girls, and I told you that they seem to have been making a really concentrated effort on including “good” music in the show.

K: (laughs) Oh yeah, yeah.

C: And honestly, it’s been really good.

K: Really bad in the first season. Like it was very stereotypical. Well, I think a lot of it was just like, they’re just kinda figuring out what the show is, and so I think part of it … that’s why I was kind of like, is this good? Music direction. But yeah, I think now that they’re more confident in the characters and stuff, I bet the music is really good. I should definitely check back in on that show. I don’t know why I stopped watching it.

C: I don’t know why either, uz it’s a good show.

K: Yeah. I did like it. I think it’s just one of those shows that because it wasn’t necessarily grabbing me the whole time, that I was just like, okay. It kinda drifted off my radar, and then I was like, oh, dang, there’s, you know … (laughs) another season and a half that I have not seen, so I should definitely jump back in for sure.

C: Yeah!

K: Cuz Manny Montana is just …

C: Ugh!

K: It’s, uh … also in real life, he’s like married to a Black woman who’s very gorgeous too, and I’m like, good for you, Manny.

C: Yeah. (laughs) Who he loves. He adores his wife.

K: I know! It’s so cute. He’s a total wife guy. It’s very adorable, and they have a lot of cute photos on Instagram.

C: Yeah. He’s always hyping his wife up, which just obviously makes me love him more. 

K: I know. 

C: Who does not want … who doesn’t want that?

K: Good for both of them, honestly.

C: Yeah. So yeah. That’s been my week, watching Good Girls. Okay. Well the last thing I think we should talk about is … one, you can find us obviously on social media—Twitter and Instagram—@TwoCentsPlusTax, and our transcripts are available on our website at twocentsplustaxpodcast.com. But we have a very special announcement, don’t we Krystal?

K: I was gonna say I don’t know where we’re goin, but now I think I do know. (laughs) 

C: You do know! Okay. So we have started a Patreon due to all the requests from our fans, from the IRS. 

K: (laughs) 

C: They have requested that we do this, and we do it for the fans, so … you know, you asked for this, so we responded. We have a Patreon, which we will link to in the notes, but I think it is just patreon.com/TwoCentsPlusTax. Yes it is.

K: Yep.

C: And let me just say, this is your opportunity to support two disabled women who are doing this podcast for free. Now, I’m not gonna say that if you don’t support our Patreon, that you hate disabled women, but I’m not not gonna say it.

K: Mm, I’m gonna imply that, yeah. We’re gonna imply that heavily, so …

C: Do you hate disabled women? Then don’t support our Patreon. If you don’t hate disabled women, then I think you should support our Patreon. And let me also just say that we have some very, very cute benefits. So we have different tiers for our fans. The first level is the IRS level, and for just five dollars a month—

K: (laughs) Oh no, should we do it like a—

C: I’m just gonna say—I’m just gonna let them know, for five dollars a month, we are gonna do a special shoutout on this podcast. And when I say a special shoutout, I’m not just saying shoutout to so-and-so. We are gonna give you a unique compliment tailored to you. Whether or not we know you and whether or not it’s accurate, that is not our concern. But you will get that!

K: Make it up! And that’s what people want from us. Yeah, exactly. You don’t want accuracy

and well-researched things; no! 

C: No!

K: That’s not what you come here for. 

C: But we will compliment you. And all the money is very much appreciated, as it helps us cover costs like transcripts and website costs, which do add up, so we would appreciate your support tremendously.

K: Yeah. And so, as Caitlin’s mentioning, we have thar five-dollar level; we also have the ten-dollar-per-month level—

C: A ten-dollar level! And a twenty-dollar, if you are an angel on this earth.

K: Exactly. Exactly. And so the differences between, you know, five-dollar-a-month level, you get a shoutout on the podcast; for ten dollars a month, you get yourself a shoutout on the podcast and on social media, if you want that, and you will get the privilege of providing us a topics for our Two Cents, No Tax segment! Which, as Caitlin mentioned, is a fan favorite, so obviously, you know, you would want to give us some ideas. We’re not just saying this because (laughing) it’s very hard to come up with ideas week-to-week. We definitely are saying this cuz it’s an opportunity for you to do something cool. 

C: What an incredible opportunity!

K: I know, right? Like how could you pass it up? It’s like, look what we’re getting you! And then for twenty dollars a month, you get all of the things in the five-dollar-a-month level and the ten-dollar-a-month level, but this is our truly amazing and excellent level, for twenty dollars a month, and you will get all of those things plus you’ll get to pick a show topic for us to discuss.

C: Wow!

K: Obviously there are some, you know, caveats and stuff, but like, look at all that opportunity we’re giving you! How could you turn it down?!

C: I don’t know how they could, to be honest, unless they just hate disabled women like I said.

K: (laughs) I mean, again, we’re not trying to say that that’s what’s happening here. But we’re not not saying that.

C: Nuh-uh. So support us on Patreon at the Patreon.com/twocentsplustax!

K: Yeah! We really appreciate it.

C: Join us! Join us. Okay. Well, any last thoughts?

K: Um, no. This was a really fun episode. I’m really interested to hear—I feel like anytime you talk about food, people just have a lot of opinions, so I’m really interested to hear other people’s opinions about trends and also flops that we missed. There’s so many, I’m sure, that I just didn’t think of.

C: There’s so many.

K: So I wanna … you know, hit us up on Twitter, on Instagram, on all the places. 

C: And Patreon.

K: (laughs) Yes! Yes, visit us on Patreon.

C: Definitely, definitely want us on Patreon

K: Yeah.

C: Well thanks for joining us, and … that’s all I got.

K: Yeah, we’ll see you guys—see you?! No, we won’t see you.

C: I know, I was about to say see you next week, but we will not. 

K: See you … next week.

C: See you in our dreams!

K: Yeah! (laughs) Alright.

C: (laughs) Okay. Bye!

K: Bye!

(theme song plays)