Episode 16: Everything’s Gonna Be Fine

Two Cents Plus Tax, Episode Sixteen: “Everything’s Gonna Be Fine”

TRANSCRIPT

Transcript has been lightly edited for readability.

(theme song plays)

K: I’m Krystal.

C: I’m Caitlin.

K: And this is …

K & C: Two Cents Plus Tax!

C: Welcome back. It’s Two Cents Plus Tax.

K: Two Cents Plus Tax! I was tryna say it off-mic. Hello!

C: Hello hello.

K: How are we today? This morning? Well, it’s morning here. It’s not morning where you are.

C: No. It’s afternoon!

K: Mm-hmm.

C: It’s okay. I was telling Tosh I’m a lil cranky today.

K: Mm.

C: TBH.

K: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

C: And we’re just … we’re gonna go with it.

K: Yeah. I think that’s fair. I feel very … like guilty (laughs) right now—

C: (laughs)

K: —just because, you know, we’re recording this in like early July and everywhere is having terrible weather.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: Like it’s so hot on the West Coast and there’s like wild storms in the Midwest and the East Coast, and here in Oakland, it’s just like (laughing) sixty-eight degrees or whatever. Normal.

C: Nice.

K: So I’m just like, ugh, I feel terrible for everyone else that’s not here. But I feel good, for me, right now.

C: (laughs)

K: I mean, aside from the droughts and the earthquakes that we just had the other day? Other than that, we’re pretty okay.

C: The world is on fire, but you’re okay.

K: Yeah! (laughs) I mean, it probably will be at some point in the next couple weeks, cuz it is fire season.

C: Yeah.

K: And a drought, like I just mentioned. But yeah, I feel very like—looking at all the social media and reading all of the—talking to my family in Central California and stuff, I’m just like … yikes! Everywhere else is bad, but here is good. (laughs)

C: Yeah. And producer Toshio is here. He is eating some cake.

K: Oh, nice!

C: So aren’t we all just little Marie Antoinettes here?

K: (laughs) I know.

C: Everything is just comin up roses and the ocean is on fire. (laughs) So I think it’s PMS for me. Cuz I—

K: Totally, yeah. Same.

C: I think it is, and it’s just like, so … keep it in. Keep it in. Rein it in.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: But this is good. This’ll be good, and my friend is actually here in town from Colorado, and so I’m gonna see her. We’re all vaccinated, but we’re gonna keep those masks on!

K: Good.

C: But shoutout to Elsa.

K: Yeah!

C: Gonna see her later, so that’s cool.

K: That’s fun! You have a friend named Elsa? I feel like I was the only person that knew someone named Elsa and I’m like, oh I guess it’s a common name. I went to elementary school with a girl named Elsa, and then I didn’t think about her for like, a decade, and then I randomly saw her at a concert in San Francisco.

C: Oh, whoa!

K: I was like, (laughing) what is going on?! Very weird. But I’m sure it’s not the same Elsa, though.

C: I don’t think it is—

K: That’s a bummer.

C: —because I’ve known her since first grade. So that would be … that would be a miracle if it were the same person that was somehow at your elementary school and mine.

K: Yeah! Is your Elsa like from a weird fundamentalist family and they have like a ton of kids?

C: No.

K: Oh, okay. Then it’s not the same. (laughs)

C: No. Is your Elsa Asian?

K: No. Okay.

C: Then it’s not the same. (laughs)

K: Yeah, there’s—(laughs). We figured it out! We figured it out.

C: What a great place for us to start this episode!

K: (laughing) I know, exactly! Wow. What a good job I did without even knowing.

C: (laughing) I know! So this episode, we’re gonna be talking about names. And it’s interesting, because Toshio and I both go by our middle names.

K: I was gonna bring that up!

C: Yeah, and you have a secret to your name, which we may or may not reveal.

K: (laughs) I definitely ???

C: But you’ve told me, which I think is hilarious.

K: Mm-hmm. It was not hilarious in the moment, but it’s hilarious now.

C: I’m sure it wasn’t. But a secret that will be revealed. It’s a Two Cents Plus Tax exclusive!

K: (laughs) I mean, it’s not.

C: The internet is gonna go wild. No, the internet is gonna go wild! Anytime we reveal anything about Krystal—

K: (laughs)

C: —Twitter goes bonkers. They’re like, “I did not know @humblecore blah blah blah!” They love it. So you’re in for a treat.

K: It’s funny, cuz I don’t—I always imagine everyone remembers everything I talk about on Twitter—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —so when people are like, I didn’t know that! I’m like, well you’re not paying attention.

C: (laughs)

K: But yeah. We’ll get there. We’ll get there, to my story.

C: Well, why don’t we just start it?

K: Cool.

C: We’ve already, you know—

K: Teased?

C: Yeah, we’ve already teased em. We’ve given em enough.

K: Yeah, so I don’t know. It made me think about it—when we came up with this topic, I was like (laughs), well, the biggest—

C: Scandal. Scandal.

K: —thing in my life re: names, yeah, is just like a … so if people know me on Twitter or just know me IRL or whatever, my name is Krystal and I spell it with a K, and—for my entire life—and you know, no big deal. Obviously you have to correct people all the time when you have a name that has an unusual spelling, but you know, that’s the price. Right? So you know, I’m goin through life, just thinkin it’s normal, whatever. And then I go to college, and I’m at college for the first time, and away from home for the first time, and I’m like, I should probably do the adult stuff, (laughs) like get a bank account and a government ID, and do all that kinda stuff. So I told my mom, I’m like, hey, can you send me my birth certificate so I can go and get a California ID? And she was like, oh yeah, I’ll send it to you. So she sends it; I go to the DMV; I’m at—I fill out all the paperwork, and I go up and I give them—and I’m like, I’m here for a California ID, and they say, it’s X number of dollars, and I’m like, okay. And so they’re like, oh go to the waiting area and we’ll call you back up when we’re ready for your photo or whatever. And so I’m like, waiting, waiting, (laughs) and I’m like, what’s going on? So they finally call me back up and they’re like, we can’t give you an ID with the name that you put on this paperwork. And I’m like, what do you mean? Krystal? Which part of it is wrong, you know? And they’re like, well, we can’t spell your name with a K. And I was like … (laughing) why? Can you explain to me what the reasoning is? And she was like, well, it doesn’t match what’s on your birth certificate.

C: (laughs)

K: And I was like, what (laughs) do you mean? And she’s like yeah, right here it says it’s with a C, so that’s what we have to put on your ID. And I’m like … I didn’t even—I could not comprehend what she was saying, because to me, it was such a non-issue that I didn’t even look at the birth certificate when my mom sent it.

C: Mm.

K: It came in a manila envelope; I’m like—you know, one of the ones that you like undo the clasps and it’s in there and whatever—

C: Oh, I’m familiar!

K: Yeah! I didn’t even think to look at it, cuz I’m like, I know what’s on here, I know—oh, born Tuesday, December whatever at 10:15pm. Like I knew all the info already.

C: You know your birth date!

K: Yeah, exactly. I know everything about myself, right? And so she’s like, yeah, it’s Crystal with a C. And I looked and it was Crystal with a C. So my entire life—

C: Wow. Who are you anymore?

K: I know! It was a mind-altering moment (laughs) for me because I was just like wh—how? Like … you know, I think all of us have … we have our names and we conceive of how they influence who we are as people, and so you’re like, oh, I’m Krystal with a K. That’s my thing! And then it’s like, well I’m actually not? I can’t—I can’t deal with this right now. And so she’s like, well we can do it with a C and then if you wanna change it, you can come back in whatever—and I was like, okay, just go ahead and do it. And I was just reeling for the rest of the day. I could not wait until I left so I could go home and call my mom. And so I finally did, and I was like—

C: Yeah.

K: —you changed my name! (laughs) And she was like, what? And I was like, you—it’s Crystal with a C on my birth certificate! And she was like, oh yeah, I didn’t like it, so I changed it.

C: (laughs)

K: (laughs) I’m like, wait, you can’t … like that’s not how it works! You can’t just decide you don’t like it and then just start spelling it a different way. Like the entire—every single record of myself up until that point wasKrystal with a K. Like my school records; everything. Even my application to Berkeley. All that info—everything was with a K. And I’m like … what am I supposed to do right now? And she’s like, I don’t know. If you wanna change it, you could change it back.

C: (laughs)

K: —you know? Whatever. (laughing) And I’m just like, this is so annoying! So because I had already gotten my—weirdly set up my bank account with a K—they didn’t ask me for any ID or anything. I don’t know what happened there. But my bank account was already with a K, but now I had an ID that was with a C, so I was like, what kind of problems is this gonna cause me?

C: Mm-hmm.

K: And lemme tell you, it has caused me many a problem (laughs) over the last like—

C: Yeah.

K: —twenty years. Because I know I can get it changed, but I’m like, that process is also annoying, so I just haven’t yet.

C: Yes.

K: And even when I started my last job, I literally had to explain to a million HR people like, it’s … my government name (laughs) is Crystal with a C, but like—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —you know, I use [Krystal] with a K, so that’s what my email should be and all that other stuff. And even when I applied to that job, it was Krystal with a K. It had to be, you know? So it was just … ugh. It’s been a whole thing. And at some point I will eventually change it to a K, so I can stop having to do this whole rigamarole.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: But like … ugh, man. What an annoying thing (laughs) to have to find out like eighteen years into life, and then have to live with for like twenty more years after that. Like it’s just—

C: It’s a shocking scandal!

K: It really was! I mean also too because I was under the impression that my mom had chosen the naming scheme for my sister and my name based on her sisters and their names, because their names all start with D. And my name and my sister were Krystal and Kourtney, but like both with Ks, you know?

C: Mm-hmm.

K: So like … it’s just, you know, a little … a little flair or whatever. But now I’m like, that’s a lie! I’m not Krystal with a K! I’m Crystal with a C, so it’s Crystal with a C and Kourtney with a K! Like it just doesn’t even work.

C: But how do we know Kourtney is really with a K?

K: Hers actually is. I’ve seen—

C: Are we sure?!

K: I’ve seen her birth—yes. I’ve seen it multiple times. My mom actually has it because she—(laughing) she doesn’t trust my sister to keep her own birth certificate.

C: (laughs)

K: So she has it, so I’ve seen it multiple times, and it’s definitely with a K. So I’m just like, you don’t know how many (laughs) … how much stress you’ve caused me over the years. Like it’s so … irritating to have that.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: But yeah, I’m technically, if you wanna get technical, I’m Crystal with a C, but it doesn’t feel like me. So I never—

C: Yeah.

K: I never say that. I’m always with a K, cuz that’s how I feel. Even in high school, my best friend—her dad used to call me that. Krystal with a K. (laughing) That was like his nickname for me! So man, it just made Pete’s nickname a lie! Like it just (laughs)—

C: I know. You’ve been living a lie for so long.

K: I really have. It’s a really weird place to be in, for sure. Cuz I’m always scared that something’s gonna happen and people are gonna accuse me of fraud or something, and it’s just like, it’s not my fault! It’s my mom’s fault! So—

C: Right. Your mom’s been scammin people for a really long time.

K: She—I mean, she’s good at scamming, but like not this kind of scamming. (laughing) This was an accidental scam, honestly.

C: Or was it?

K: Oh, god. Who was she scamming? Me? That would be horrible.

C: Yeah, her own daughter!

K: (laughs) No.

C: Well, you’re Krystal with a K, and I’m Caitlin with a C, which sounds like … it’s wrong.

K: No, it sounds right!

C: Kate—I mean, it literally has K, so no one can spell my name.

K: Oh, weird.

C: No one can spell my name.

K: I think of the C spelling as like the main spelling.

C: You would think, but no, and—so I was born in the year of our lord, 1982. And at that point in time, there were no Caitlins. There was one other Caitlin in my elementary school. Like it was not a popular name.

K: Oh, interesting.

C: There was Caitlin, and she also went by her middle name, Caitlin.

K: (laughs)

C: I go by Caitlin, which is my middle name. At work, I go by my first name.

K: Whoa.

C: Not intentionally; it wasn’t—(laughs)—this another weird work thing, but—

K: (laughs)

C: So when I started at my job … so at school, anytime I’ve had to do anything, you know, government-related, I have to put my first name down.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: And it is … should I say what it is? I don’t know. It’s one of the Sugarbaker women.

K: (laughs) Mm-hmm.

C: I’ll just say it. It’s Julia. So at work, I’m Julia. I did not choose that, but when they set up my email, they set it up as Julia.

K: Mm.

C: And so then all my clients were like—I’d be like, “I’m Caitlin”—oh, Tosh says we can bleep it out later. It’s okay. (laughs) Just don’t dox me.

K: Yeah, people.

C: So they set up my email as Julia, blah blah blah. And then I’d meet clients and I’m like, “I’m Caitlin.” They’re like, “Who are you?” And so eventually I just started bein like, “Okay. I’m Julia. I’m Julia.”

K: Mm-hmm.

C: That said, so—okay, so it’s weird. It’s like, anytime people call me Julia, I’m like, what?

K: Yeah.

C: Cuz I don’t go by Julia anywhere else, except like at school or at the—you know, like you said, DMV, or Social Security. Whatevs.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: Even that, like—so Julia’s my email, but then they’ll—people call me Julie—

K: (laughs) Oh, god.

C: —which is weird, like when it’s—especially when it’s in your email—

K: Yes!

C: When you’re sending an email and it literally says your name and they’re like, “Hey Julie!” And I’m like, that is not my name on so many levels—

K: Yeah.

C: —but I will be kind to you regardless.

K: (laughs)

C: I will be professional. So yeah, people call—and (laughing) it’s weird too, because everyone at my office who I work with, they know me as Caitlin.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: So then sometimes when they’ll respond to my emails, they’re like, Julia blah blah blah, and I’m like, who the fuck do you think you’re talking to?

K: (laughs)

C: Like … anyway. It’s really weird. But you have—okay, one reason why we wanted to do this episode too was cuz you have a work story—

K: Oh! (laughs)

C: —regarding your name that I will just—I’ll randomly think about it sometimes and start laughing.

K: Yeah.

C: Let’s get back to you, Krystal with a K.

K: (laughs) Yes, it’s funny. When you mentioned this story—I totally forgot that it had happened until you mentioned it cuz it’s been like … so, I mean, I’ve not been at my new job for that long, but I’ve been there for over a year now, and so I totally forgot it happened cuz it happened probably within the first month that I was there. But yeah, so you know, you’re new to a workplace and you’re getting to know everybody and, you know, maybe you go around; you meet people face to face; you get a tour; whatever. But you know, you’re still getting to know people and putting faces to names, so I totally get it. But probably … I don’t know, maybe the first week or two weeks that I worked at my job, you know, you’re emailing with people you’ve never emailed with before because you’re new, and … (laughs) I had been introduced to someone by my manager cuz he was makin an effort to let people know there was someone new on the team—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —and like what my role was, and all of this. And he introduced me—Krystal with a K—spelled it correctly.

C: Yeah.

K: And then (laughs) later on, we were corresponding with someone else right after, shortly after those intro emails had gone out, and someone for whatever reason—I don’t know what the thinking was here. My name was in the email many times.

C: Yeah.

K: Not just in whatever my manager had said, but also in my signature; in my—you know. It was all over the place. (laughing) And so someone, I don’t know why, just decided that my name was Kevin.

C: (laughs)

K: (laughing) And just was referring to me as Kevin in that whole email thread. And I’m like, I don’t know what’s going on. I don’t know how to correct this person, cuz I don’t really know them, and there’s like a whole weird … yeah. So I just let it happen, cuz I’m like (laughs), I don’t have the bandwidth to like work on—you know, to focus on this.

C: (laughs)

K: And this is like right at the beginning of the pandemic stuff, so we had just got sent home or whatever, I think, and so I was just like not really … you know. I was not really caring about that kinda stuff, but it was just so funny to me. I’m just like, what do I do? (laughs) I don’t know this person, and they’re not like—it was someone external to our office, I think—

C: Oh, okay.

K: —so it wasn’t even like … or maybe it was someone internal! I can’t remember the like, who it actually was. But it went on for the entire thread, and my manager was just like, what are you gonna do? I’m like, (laughs) should I do anything? He’s like, do you want me to say something? And I was like, what can you say except for like, keep using my name more and more so they see that they’re making a mistake, but like … yeah, no.

C: (laughs)

K: So for that person, for that email thread, I was Kevin. And I just … I was like, you know what? It’s fine. (laughs) I’m just Kevin for now.

C: (laughs)

K: So that’s okay. Like it was okay with me. But my manager and I laughed about that for probably like a whole month after, just like … he would message me and call me Kevin. Yeah, it just was a whole thing.

C: I’m just Kevin for now.

K: Yeah. I was just like, that’s a new one. Like I have a lotta nicknames. I’m like, that one … that one is a new one. I’ve never gotten—

C: Yeah. That one’s a leap.

K: It is so far from what actually—you know, who I actually am and what my name actually is. I’m just like, I don’t know. Maybe they just saw the K and like—

C: Yeah. You do not look like a Kevin. At all. You don’t look like a Kevin.

K: (laughs) I mean … thank you. But yeah, I don’t know, maybe they just saw the K and went with what they assumed was going on, and maybe it was in their head for another reason; I don’t know. But yeah, I was just Kevin in that thread. And I was like, you know what? It’s okay.

C: I wonder if they ever found out.

K: I don’t think I brought it up again. Because I was just like—

C: I mean did anyone tell them, like hey!

K: No, I think afterwards they got it right. But that thread, for some reason I don’t know, they just were like, this is the name I’m committed to and we’re goin with it for the entire email exchange. (laughs)

C: (laughs)

K: Which I guess was fine, but yeah. It was very—it was a very weird thing. That is the weirdest mistake people have made in return—you know, in regards to my name. I get, like you, all the other—all the myriad spellings of Krystal.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: There are so many, and I get—I’ve gotten all of them over the almost forty years I’ve been alive, so. So one thing—I just sort of thought about it right now—was nicknames.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: Do you … are you like a nickname person? Is your family a nickname family?

C: They’ll call me Katie.

K: (laughs)

C: Oh, Lulu. Yeah, Lulu was my nickname for a really long time.

K: Oh that’s fun.

C: Not from any of my given names.

K: Mm-hmm. (laughs) Yes.

C: Toshio, what about your name?

Toshio: My name!

C: Your name!

T: My middle name.

C: Yeah.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: Or your first name, because you were also Gergory. If people listened to our scams episode—

K: (laughs) I love that.

C: —you were also Gergory for awhile.

K: Gerg.

T: True. Yeah. I didn’t identify as that.

K & C: (laugh)

T: Gregory, it comes from nothing. I mean, my parents just—

C: Yeah.

T: —picked it out of a book, and … also was not a popular name then. Or ever, really. But it was purely capitalism that had me change it to Toshio initially. But it stuck. My intern coordinator when I was working at this non-profit was like, if you wanna work in non-profits—this was in college—you should go by your middle name.

C: What?!

T: As it gives you some ethnic flair.

K: (laughs) Okay.

C: Oh my god.

T: And I mean I guess it’s—I have no idea what the people who have hired me are thinking—

K: Mm.

T: —so I can’t really say if it’s worked, but I’m still alive, so it hasn’t not worked, I suppose—

K: Mm.

T: —in the most morbid way.

K: (laughs)

C: It gives you an ethnic flair?

K: I love it.

T: Yeah.

C: Wow.

T: I mean—

K: Yeah, I think that’s an interesting point, though, because I feel like I have had instances where like people see my name or, you know, it’s an application thing or whatever, and they don’t necessarily know that I’m gonna come in and be a Black person

C: Mm-hmm.

K: I think maybe the spelling might give somethin away, but even then, that’s like not really telling enough, you know? Where I’m like, oh, there probably is some like, you know, racial, ethnic kinda stuff. Cuz I never feel like Krystal is like a Black person name. I just feel like it’s a[n] unmarked name, where you don’t know what you’re gonna get when the person shows up. Which I never—yeah.

C: Yeah. There’s a lotta Crystals around here.

K: Mm-hmm. Yes. Trust me, you don’t have to tell me. I know.

C: (laughs)

K: Like I was—there was a point in school where there were three of us in the same class—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —and two of us were Black. So I was like, this is not okay. Like I’m … I’m the Black Krystal! Like you go somewhere else. She came to our school after I had already been there for a buncha years—

C: How dare she?

K: —so I’m like, this is already my territory, yeah. Like back up.

C: (laughs)

K: But yeah, no. Crystals, definitely. But yeah, I definitely think there’s something to that. Especially if you’re talking about like, I don’t know, the non-profit world, which likes to think of itself as very sort of … I guess liberal is the right word to use. I wouldn’t say progressive or whatever—

C: No.

K: —cuz I don’t think that’s true, but definitely … you know, it probably does strike some people as like, ooh look at me, doing a good thing, hiring someone whose name—

C: Someone named Toshio!

K: Yeah, it’s definitely—I could see some people having that thought process.

C: Yeah.

K: Yeah.

C: I have the whitest girl name. Caitlin.

K: But I mean—

C: Even—there’s a rap group, Little Brother.

K: (laughing) Mm-hmm.

C: You know them? With 9th Wonder? And they literally have a song and there was a line in there that was like, “Blah blah blah blah blah, white girls named Caitlin.” I was like, oh my god, I’m so embarrassed!

K: (laughs) Well, my name—

C: It’s so true!

K: Yeah. My name has the like … I think now has the connotation of like … (sighs) how do we put this delicately? Like being very low-class, which I am. You know, I’m poor. I’m from a poor family, and you know, that’s fine. But it has a connotation that is … I feel like doesn’t match me as a person, who I am as a person, like very boring. Like I am not … I’m not white, and I’m not, you know—

C: Are you Armenian?

K: No, I don’t think so. (laughing) I mean, I would know.

C: Kardashians. Toshio put Kardashians. K.

K: Yeah, they have a K thing.

C: Yeah.

K: I’m kinda like, they too stole it from us! But they didn’t, cuz most of them are older than me and my sister, so … but yeah, I definitely think there’s something to like the ethnic, racial, class signifiers that go along with your name—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —and whether or not you feel like you match up with those, which I never feel—I don’t think I—well, my sister on the other hand, I think she is a perfect Kourtney. Like when you think of Kourtney, you think of someone who’s bubbly; high-energy; very kind of… you know, probably a popular person, and my sister is all of that. So I’m like, okay, she got it right there.

C: (laughs)

K: My mom got it right on that front. What happened with me? But then I—oh yeah, I was like, oh right, they named me after a friend of theirs. So it wasn’t a name that they thought was fitting for me; it was a name that they already had, and so when I came, they were like, okay, we’ll name her after this person. So yeah.

C: Yeah. My Julia name was named after their neighbor, who was this kind of cantankerous old woman, and I’m like … yeah, that tracks. That tracks.

K: (laughs) Perfect. That’s perfect! That’s what I want, see? I wish there had been more thought. And one of those things that I always wanted to ask my mom, like what—and I never have gotten a good answer—is what she would have named me if not Krystal.

C: Uh-huh.

K: I know my sister … my sister had a weird one, where she was gonna name my sister Konstance. Which I’m just like, that is the exact opposite of a Kourtney. Like, the exact opposite. But then they went with Kourtney at the last minute.

C: Would it be Konstance with a K?

K: Yeah. And I’m like, that is … a bad name. (laughs) Like it’s not the 1800’s anymore.

C: (laughs)

K: You can’t name people that.

C: I—when I was doin this episode—I put it on a link up here—but it ended up being a meme, and it’s a white woman and she’s got the whitest of the whitest lady names. So her name is McKinli—

K: Ohh.

C: —but she spelled it McKinli.

K: Oh god. Mm-hmm.

C: And then this became a meme where she … she’s this blonde, thin—

K: Oh my gosh.

C: —white woman who looks ex[actly] … she looks like so many women around here. Where—

K: Mm-hmm.

C: Which is not a diss; it’s just I—literally, I see you. I see you, McKinli. And she’s standing beside a chalkboard, and she’s pregnant—

K: (laughing) Yes.

C: —in front of baby names. And so she’s like, what are we gonna name this little white baby?

K: (laughs)

C: And it’s a girl. It’s a girl and her names for the girls are Tayly—

K: (grumbles)

C: McKarty—M-C-K-A-R-T-Y. What?

K: Ugh. That’s a last name.

C: Nayvie—N-A-Y-V-I-E; Maylee; and then she decides—and I’m like, what—

K: (laughs)

C: —white bullshit is this? Lakynn? L-A-K-Y-N-N. And that’s what she decided on.

K: Ugh.

C: And then McKinli gets pregnant again—

K: Of course.

C: —and gives us another gift for the internet.

K: (laughs)

C: This time she’s having a boy. So one of the possibilities for her son’s name is Taysom—T-A-Y-S-O-M—

K: Okay. I have something—I’m gonna write that name down, cuz I wanna come back to it.

C: Taysom. Yeah, Taysom.

K: Yeah.

C: Mm. Nuh-uh. That sounds like a portmanteau of something.

K: There’s actually a person named Taysom who’s pretty famous, and I think he has a similar—well, pretty famous for me, as somebody who knows about sports—but I think he has a similar background to this kind of a person. Like I think he comes from that super Christian, very white, like—

C: Yeah.

K: I don’t think it’s a name that out—that is popular outside of that kind of community.

C: I can’t imagine.

K: Cuz I literally had never heard it until I was like, oh, that guy’s named that! Oh, and there’s all these other younger—cuz I think he’s like in his twenties—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —people in that community who are named that, and I’m like, oh, it’s a thing for those people. Got it. Got it.

C: Yeah. And so then the other names really are not bad, I think, in comparison. There’s Ollie, which could be cute, although it’s like … don’t make it Ollie! Make it Oliver. Don’t name them—I do not like it when people name nicknames.

K: Oh, really?

C: No! I do not.

K: That’s funny. (laughs)

C: I don’t abide it. Like, do an Oliver and call him Ollie.

K: So if they named their kid Danny, you’d be like, no.

C: Correct.

K: You’d want him to be named Daniel. That’s funny.

C: Yeah. There’s Grayson, which … don’t like that name, but like—

K: Mm-hmm.

C: —at least it sounds like an actual name.

K: Also another bad sports reference. There’s a person people hate named Grayson Allen, who … (laughs)

C: Is there? To me, I’m like, it sounds like someone who woulda been on Dallas. In the 80’s. Grayson.

K: I mean, he could be, yeah.

C: Like some rich, white oil baron.

K: Nailed it. You nailed it. (laughs)

C: Asher … Asher’s not bad.

K: Mm.

C: But then the name that McKinli decides on is Tatum, which … god bless you, McKinli.

K: (laughs)

C: You know, bless your heart. Bless your heart.

K: Oh, boy. That type of person—

C: Lakynn and Tatum!

K: They’re too similar! I don’t like—I don’t like the names together.

C: No, they’re terrible. Those names are terrible, and she has cursed her children.

K: (laughs) Well, she—this is a thing, though. There’s going to be—there already is—a generation of kids with names that are so different from the ones we grew up with. Right? Like when I grew up, there were tons of like … Michelle—

C: Yeah.

K: —and there were Caitlins and—there were like a million Michelles, first of all. That was like the most popular name for so long.

C: Oh, Stephanie—

K: Oh, Stephanie!

C: Jennifer—

K: Jennifer. A lotta Courtneys where I grew up, too. Brittany, like—

C Mm-hmm.

K: These—this certain kind of name that I think of now, because we’ve all aged into adults, as like a very specific type. And these kids have very—I don’t know what … I mean, I think the biggest one that people can point to are the Aiden names—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: So, you know, Jayden, Braden, Graydon, you know, all of—I think Aiden also is one generally. But like all of those names, there’s gonna be so many kids out there—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —with those names (laughs). And yeah, it’s just interesting, that shift from the names that we sort of think of as popular and common, to … people are just out there just naming their kids whatever.

C: (laughing) Right.

K: And getting input from the internet! And I’m like, ahh, maybe don’t do that.

C: I know.

K: Like maybe just choose a name between yourselves, or ask your friends. Your real friends. Cuz it could go badly. Yeah.

C: Oh! Speaking of Oliver, Oliver is the number one trending baby name.

K: Mm-hmm. That makes sense.

C: For boils. Nope, not boils. Boys.

K: (laughs) Boil!

C: Whoops.

K: Boil plus girls. Yeah—

C: Guess what the number one girl name is. Not to be all gender binary, but I’m looking at a list, so …

K: That’s a good question.

C: It’s not what I would have expected.

K: Is it something we mentioned?

C: Nuh-uh.

K: It’s not something we mentioned.

C: Oh, I’m sorry! (laughing) Toshio says “Give credit where it’s due!” Babynames.com. I’m sorry.

K: (laughs) I’m not gonna click the link, cuz I wanna—I’m gonna guess.

C: Yeah, don’t click the link! This is actually—I don’t know why I find this interesting, but I do.

K: I always find it interesting.

C: Okay, and—so—you know what, I’m gonna give a shoutout to Babynames.com, because they have this list and it says male, female, and then gender-neutral.

K: Mm!

C: Which I’m really into! The number one gender-neutral name is surprising to me.

K: Is it … is it a name that has been historically for one gender or the other? Or another?

C: I would say so, and I associate it very much with Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

K: Oh! Uh—

C: It’s not Buffy.

K: Is it Spike? No (laughs)—

C: No (laughs) … oh my god! Imagine naming your baby Spike.

K: That’d be amazing. Someone should do that. Angel? No.

C: No, but please don’t name your baby Angel.

K: No, don’t do that either. Cuz also, David Boreanaz sucks, too.

C: He does! I was actually thinking about him this morning for some reason.

K: Ew! Don’t. (laughs) Don’t do that.

C: I know! I don’t know why. Maybe I was having a weird premonition about today.

K: What’s her sister’s name? Is it the sister? Name? I think it—

C: No.

K: Okay.

C: I can’t remember what the name was. No, it was her friend.

K: Charisma! Is it Charisma Carpenter? (laughs) Willow. Not Willow.

C: No, but shoutout to Charisma Carpenter, who almost got murdered in real life—

K: Oh my gosh.

C: —before her big break. You can google it.

K: She’s had like a really weird time, honestly.

C: Yeah. She did, and fuck Joss Whedon.

K: Oh, god. That guy. Yeah, I can’t guess it.

C: Willow. Willow is the number one trending—

K: Oh, I just said Willow! I was like—ugh.

C: You did? I didn’t hear you, sorry.

K: Yeah, and then I was like, no that can’t be right. Like, that’s not popular enough. But maybe it is!

C: Yeah, Willow. And then for girls it’s Charlotte.

K: Charlotte. I was gonna guess Sophia. I feel like that’s a very popular one now too, but maybe that’s already over. But yeah, one thing I always thought of was like, people with very interesting names. Cuz Tosh, your comment made me think of the people with—not weird; I don’t wanna say weird. The unique names. Names that you’ve only heard like a handful of times, or maybe even once. Do you have your favorite one of those? Cuz I have a favorite one, and it just makes me laugh every time I think about it.

C: Ooh. What is it?

K: So mine is from when I was in college. I met a guy—he was in one of my linguistics classes—and his name was Liberty. (laughs) Like …

Oh. That to me is not that wild.

K: It’s not weird, but it tells you exactly what kind of family he came from, and it is a hundred percent exactly what you’re thinking.

C: Yeah.

K: Like whatever you’re imagining, that’s what his family is. And it just was so funny to me. I’m like, you are so that kind of person that you’re gonna name your child Liberty. Okay, great. Good for you.

C: You know when we were in college, they did this festival each year—

K: Mm-hmm.

C: —at the end of the year, where everyone would either do a lotta drugs or drink—

K: That wasn’t just college.

C: —and it was over a weekend. It was wild. It was wild.

K: Oay.

C: And so there was a beer garden there, and I took a photo, or someone took a photo of me and a couple friends, and like everyone’s drunk, and I remember (laughs) I had like—in the picture, I was like, oh my god, cuz there’s like ketchup on my shirt—or salsa. I had eaten a burrito or something, and there was a salsa stain on my shirt. Anyway, so there’s this picture, and I’m like, oh I’ll send it to my mom! Actually, Toshio—Toshio just posted a comment. This is exactly where I’m going with this.

K: Mm.

C: So yeah. So there were these brothers—should I say both their names? Or is that … is that bad?

K: I mean, are they gonna listen? I think you should definitely say their names.

C: I can’t imagine they would ever hear this.

K: Yeah, exactly! So (laughs) …

C: So okay. So there were brothers, and the brothers were named Om—O-M—and Buffalo.

K: (laughs)

C: So they were white. Very very white. And so I had this picture of me and my friends drunk. And I’m just like, I’m just gonna send this to my mom! As like a—you know, haha! Like, look what I’m up to this weekend!

K: Mm-hmm.

C: So in my contacts, you know, she’s Mom. Well, my email messed up—

K: Oh no. Oh no! I see where you’re going. (laughs)

C: —and instead, I sent the drunk picture to Om, who I’ve never spoken to in my life.

K: Oh, no.

C: And it’s just like me drunk with salsa on my shirt—

K: (laughs)

C: —hangin with my friends … to this random dude at my college. (laughs)

K: Oh my gosh. Did he respond? Like what happened?

C: Oh, no. No.

K: Aw, man!

C: He didn’t—I’m sure he was like, uhhh … yeah, and Toshio says “The school’s like twelve hundred people.”

K: Yeah.

C: It’s true. And I was the token disabled woman. Like I’m sure he—you know … I was that girl, so yeah. (laughs)

K: Oh, funny. I love that. I love that. I was like, I don’t know where this … where do they fit in? And then when you’re like, oh, I was sending … I was like, oh no, I see where this is going.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: That’s bad. But also funny.

C: Yeah, shoutout to whities Om and Buffalo.

K: (laughs) Oh yeah! I wanted to circle back. So we never talked that much about nicknames. You guys have them? Or is that something that—

C: Oh. Just Katie, I guess.

K: Oh, that’s cute.

C: Though I feel like people don’t even call me that. My mom will call me like, Peanut.

K: Aw! That’s adorable.

C: Uh, which is fine. It’s a little weird to be like, forty, and get called Peanut, but—

K: Dude, I have the same thing. (laughing) It’s fine. So I mean, I asked this because my family is a very big nickname family. Probably each of us has at least like three or four different ones that we regularly get called. My one that pretty much everybody in my family knows, but only one person calls me, is Potato.

C: (laughing) Okay!

K: Like my grandma has called me Potato since I was … I don’t know. I guess barely born? Like she almost never calls me Krystal.

C: Yeah.

K: Like almost never. Unless she’s referring to me, like she’s talking to someone else about me. But like she never calls me actually Krystal. So … and because she’s like from Texas, it’s more like Potat-uh (laughs) than Potato.

C: Yeah.

K: So but yeah, I have a ton of nicknames and everyone in my family does, and I was like, oh, is this … it took awhile for me to realize like, oh, everybody doesn’t have that.

C: What are your other nicknames?

K: Oh, you know, there’s the ones that are mostly related to my name, like Krys, or … my mom weirdly will call me Krystina, and that somehow over the years became shortened to Tina. And I’m like, okay but neither of those are my actual name.

C: (laughs)

K: But yeah, I wish more people had more nicknames or were into giving them. I think it’s kind of … I don’t think you can give yourself a nickname. I always hate that, like when someone’s like … I mean—

C: Who does that?

K: I guess Rest In Peace to Kobe Bryant—

C: Oh. Yeah.

K: —but he nicknamed himself Black Mamba. I’m like, no. Like that’s so cheesy.

C: Well, I think he was doing that too as a way to rehabilitate his image after the rape trial.

K: Yeah, exactly! And that’s another reason why it shouldn’t have stuck. I’m just like, no. You are Kobe, or whatever your nickname was before that—Bean, I guess—but yeah. I—whenever people try to give themselves nicknames, I’m like, ugh. Just so desperate. I don’t love it.

C: Yeah.

K: I feel the same way that you feel about people giving their kids names that are shortenings.

C: Yeah. I don’t like it.

K: Yeah.

C: And you know, I do have some upsetting news I wanted to share, which you reminded me of, regarding names.

K: Oh no.

C: Regarding names, and about two people that we have talked about at length on this podcast, which is Good Girls and Christina Hendricks and Manny Montana.

K: (laughs) Oh, yeah. Yeah.

C: So as you know, I’m very upset that Good Girls got canceled. A show that had women protagonists; had—and not just white women protagonists. Like Retta was on there, who was awesome—

K: I still will like … I’ve always felt like, why are they friends? Why is Retta friends with these people? (laughs) Like they are not the same—

C: I don’t understand it. It doesn’t really make sense—

K: It doesn’t work. But I’m glad she’s there. Yeah.

C: —but she was really good on the show. She was really good on her show, and I really like the relationship between her and her husband.

K: Yes. That’s a good relationship, yeah.

C: Like I thought that they were a really cute couple.

K: Yeah. Yeah yeah.

C: And so … does it really make sense that she’s friends with these—

K: (laughs) No.

C: —two white women?

K: These sisters? Yeah.

C: Not really.

K: Yeah.

C: Cuz yeah. But anyway. (sighs) Word on the street, which—

K: Mm-hmm.

C: —I was not aware of—

K: Me neither.

C: —apparently it’s an open secret in Hollyweird that Christina Hendricks and Manny Montana do not get along.

K: Yep.

C: I was saddened, legitimately, to read that. And that he would not call her by her name; he would call her by Chris. And she’s like, “Nobody calls me Chris. That’s not my name; I don’t like it.” And yet he continues to do so.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: So anyway, word on the streets, as I said, is that they—so I guess all of the women took a pay cut, and they were gonna like … they were in negotiations to bring it back. They all took a pay cut for some reason even though it’s like ABC, which, y’all have plenty of money.

K: (laughs)

C: But Manny Montana wouldn’t do the pay cut, and then maybe scheduling or something, so the show’s not coming back. But—

K: So my … my question though there, that I didn’t see in the article—cuz I also saw someone talkin about this on Twitter and I was like, what? I never knew that! So I was pokin around too. But my question about that was … was he already getting paid less than they were?

C: I would assume so.

K: Because if he was, then I could imagine being like, well I’m not gonna take less. They already make more than I do. Like it’s fine if they take less, right?

C: Yeah.

K: They’re probably—their pay cut probably wasn’t to the level—like their pay cut probably wasn’t even to the level of his normal pay.

C: Yeah.

K: So I’m like, okay, that’s fine. Like you can’t ask the least—the person who makes the least money on the show to be like … “Take less money.”

C: Yeah.

K: I think that’s kind of a little bit of a[n] unfair reasoning. But I think maybe the impression that I got from reading that article was like, they were trying to make it seem as though Manny Montana not taking a pay cut and then also having this, you know, scheduling thing—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —was the reason that the show didn’t come back, and I’m like, that’s not really fair to him.

C: I don’t—yeah, I agree. And like I said, ABC. You have plenty of money to pay people!

K: All the networks have so much money! They make so many other shows that are crappy! (laughs) Crappier than that one.

C: Right. Right. And so I think you’re right. I’m sure he wasn’t making what they were making.

K: Yeah.

C: And it’s not like they’re short on cash. Just pay people. Finish up the show. It was like four episodes or something.

K: It doesn’t make any sense.

C: It already has a built-in audience.

K: Right.

C: Now they’ve canceled it and they’re bringing in some show that has I think essentially the same plot. So it just … (sighs) it just made me sad, and I really wanted Christina Hendricks and Manny Montana to like each other in real life, and now I know they don’t.

K: I know. Especially because it seemed like they had good chemistry.

C: They really do!

K: I always thought they did. Someone on Twitter was like, uh, where do you see that chemistry? I’m like, are you serious? Like I thought it was very good (laughs), but—

C: I did too.

K: —maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about, but I’m pretty sure I do. Yeah, it was very weird to read that, cuz I had never heard it. And I don’t know, I think he’d had a pretty good reputation. And so had Christina. Like I’ve never heard any things about them not getting along with their co-workers, or co-stars or whatever.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: So it was kinda surprising that they just were like, mmm—

C: Yeah.

K: —just butt heads. But interesting. Maybe that’s what you need to have good chemistry, is like, you have to not like each other, kind of, in real life. (laughs) And then you can sort of let it out onscreen, I guess. Yeah. It’s … it’s very weird.

C: Yeah. RIP Good Girls.

K: But it’s a bummer that that’s not coming back. I thought maybe at least one of the streaming things maybe would like … do something. Especially cuz like you said, it’s only a couple more episodes—

C: Right. Just finish it out!

K: Yeah. It was weird that they chose not to. But that happens all the time—

C: Yeah.

K: —and that’s like one of my least favorite things about the way that we do shows here in the states, is like, you get so much of that, that networks will just be like, nah. We’re done.

C: Yeah.

K: We don’t care if the story’s not done, like that’s—oh well.

C: (laughs) Right.

K: There’ll be another ten shows like this, you know, in a year or whatever. But yeah, this actually made me think of something about celebrity stage names and, you know, actor names and stuff like that.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: When did you learn that that was a thing?

C: Right.

K: That like, not every actor that you saw, like was their real name?

C: I know!

K: I remember being so blown away by that when I first learned it as a kid.

C: I don’t—yeah, I must have been a child.

K: Yeah.

C: I mean, I’m still blown away sometimes. (laughs)

K: But actually, the one—one name I thought was a stage name that actually isn’t [that] still gets me—Ariana Grande. Like that’s her actual name. I was just like—

C: Oh, is it?

K: Yeah! It’s her real name.

C: Oh, I didn’t realize that. I thought that was fake.

K: Exactly! I’m like, it could not sound more fake. (laughs)

C: Yeah.

K: Like it could not sound more made up for that genre of like R&B, pop, whatever, that she does.

C: Yeah.

K: And so, but nope, that’s her actual real name. Except I don’t think it’s pronounced Grande; I think it’s Grandie. Like IRL.

C: Yeah.

K: But still good. That’s a good name if you’re gonna become a famous person.

C: Madonna’s real name is Madonna.

K: Exactly. That’s another one where I’m like … I thought it was, when I learned about fake stage names, I assumed that one was too—

C: Yeah.

K: —and then I was like, what?!

C: I know.

K: So amazing. I think we just have to keep our record going of talking about Madonna on every episode.

C: I know. She’s loving this right now.

K: (laughs) She’s our episode … our podcast—our idol. We just have to keep going back to her every … every ep, we can tie it back to Madonna. (laughs)

C: Yeah. (laughs)

K: Yeah. But there’s a couple people like that, that have the singular name kind of fame. Like, you know—

C: Cher.

K: Cher. Beyoncé. That’s a level to get to.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: Like where people just say the name. Although those names are also too very distinctive, you know?

C: Mm-hmm.

K: So even if they weren’t one-named people, they would still be memorable, because like … not a lotta people are named Madonna. (laughs)

C: Right.

K: Not a lotta people are named Beyoncé. So I kinda think maybe you have to have a very distinctive first name to become a … whatever. But I think people … do you think Britney Spears is at that level? Because I think when people—when you say Britney, I think that’s who people automatically—

C: Oh, yeah! Free Britney. Free Britney.

K: Yeah.

C: Oh my god. I’ve been watching her Instagram this week—

K: I can’t … watch it. I can’t look at her social media! (laughs)

C: So did you read the … did you read the Ro … wait.

K: The Ronan Farrow—

C: Ronan! I was about to call him Rowan. Ronan Farrow article? So devastating. And they name whoever the firm is, and who controls her social media accounts.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: Which I’m sorry, of course I’ve forgotten. It’s like Crown Media or something like that. But her Instagram, like … holy shit. They posted some photo, which is probably not even her, from the back, and like all the fans are like, where are her back tattoos?

K: (gasps) Oh is that the one when she was in the tub? Like there was a—she’s like in a bathroom or something? Is that the one?

C: She’s in a bathroom—

K: Yeah.

C: —and it’s some woman from the back, naked, and doesn’t have any tattoos. Oh, CrowdSurf Media is who controls her account.

K: Okay.

C: So they posted this photo of this, you know, woman’s back. And Britney I guess has back tattoos. So everyone on there is like, “This is not Britney!” Like, “Give her back her accounts,” and all this stuff. And then they’re—whoever—the CrowdSurf people are just like, they’re posting a lot lately—

K: Mm-hmm.

C: —cuz she has a court date comin up on the fourteenth, I think?

K: Mm.

C: And then they posted this next post after all the backlash against the—like all the comments about that, and they were like—again, it’s not Britney; they’re trying to use emojis to make it sound like her, but it’s not. And she was—they were like, “I like my back better this way; I edited out the tattoos.” But well, it’s like, Britney doesn’t even have a phone. Do you think she’s gonna have photoshop? I don’t think so.

K: Weird. This whole thing is so creepy. Like everything about it is—

C: If you have not read that article, you really should. And there’s a podcast out now—I think it’s called Toxic—and it’s by Babs Gray and another woman who did the Britney’s Gram podcast.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: So it’s just out and I just started listening to that, and I mean, it’s just … it is so disturbing. So devastating. And this is someone who has millions upon millions of dollars. So just think about other people who are locked up in conservatorships who don’t have those kinds of resources, and fans looking out for them. I mean, but my hope is that—I’m really hopeful that Britney’s gonna get out of this soon, and I send her the best. I really hope she can get out, cuz the … what she is dealing with now is just truly horrendous and unfair, so … sorry to take it down.

K: No, it’s fine. I feel bad because I … not bad, but I feel like this is one of those dicey things that I’m just not in on. Cuz I was—this is gonna sound horrible, but I was just never really a Britney Spears person.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: I never really liked her music; I don’t … I did not like her voice. (laughs) That’s not fair to say, but I just couldn’t handle it.

C: No it is! I was never really a Britney fan either, but after reading all this stuff, I just feel like—

K: But I mean, that’s sort of why my intrigue is not as high, I think, as other people’s, is just cuz I’m just not tapped in. I mean, obviously I care—

C: Yeah.

K: —about whether or not people are being mistreated, but it’s just not something that I was like … I’ve been following. I don’t know—but I’m just not in on it that way. But the thing that is weird—or not weird—to me about this whole thing, the Britney conservatorship thing, is how like … it’s really interesting how the different sort of factions of people are using it as an example of how a certain type of person is mistreated.

C: Uh-huh. Yeah.

K: Like you see a lot of white women who are like, “This is why women can’t blah blah blah”—

C: Yeah. I don’t wanna—

K: —and then disabled people being like—

C: Yes. Let me say this—

K: “Actually, this is a disability rights issue—

C: Yeah. Lemme say this—

K: —and that’s the crux of it.”

C: I’m sorry. I just … this has been on my mind. I don’t want another—

K: I think we have the same thinking, yes.

C: We a hundred per cent do!

K: Mm-hmm.

C: I don’t wanna see another op ed by Amber Tamblyn in the New York Times—

K: (laughs) Yeah. Exactly.

C: —being like, “This is why women in the entertainment industry blah blah blah.” No! This is a disability rights issue.

K: Exactly.

C: Like … step off.

K: Yep.

C: Not that I think Amber is a bad person or whatever, but I’m like, see the bigger picture! Ask a disabled person about this shit!

K: Yeah. This is the way disability rights gets like flattened out all the time. This reminds me—this is not even like the same kind of thing, but it makes me think of—Caitlin, I think we had a little book club when the book came out, but A Little Life—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —that book from Hanya Yanagihara from however many years ago that’s one of my favorite books—how the disability stuff in that book got completely flattened out and not discussed in like—

C: Everywhere? (laughs)

K: —you know, characterizations; criticism. I was just so flabbergasted, the way that nobody ever touched it—

C: Yeah. I know.

K: —and I was like, it’s right there! It’s a huge part of how—why all these characters do what they do! And no one was talking about it. And it’s the same thing that’s happening here, where people are like, “No. We don’t recognize disability as like an identity that someone can have, and as such, we don’t recognize that these issues are like falling along those lines.” Right?

C: Mm-hmm.

K: I’m sure definitely like Britney having her mental health struggles and also being a woman, like those two things are inextricably linked, to me.

C: Right. Right.

K: Like you can’t just say like, oh yes, this is what women go through and blah blah blah, cuz how many people who are just women and don’t have disability issue struggles are dealing with conservatorship problems?

C: Right.

K: Not very many, right? Like the whole concern is that she had these struggles; her family stepped in and was like, we have to make these decisions for her or whatever, and now she can’t—you know, now they’re still making those decisions however many—fifteen years later or whatever it is. So yeah, to me it’s just—it’s very frustrating, this conversation, cuz it’s like, I don’t wanna be that person who’s always like, “What about disability?” But I’m gonna be that person (laughs). Like, what about disability? It is … it’s the thing. It’s the main thing here—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —in this whole issue, and … it really irks me when it gets, you know, edited out of the story.

C: Yeah.

K: Cuz the story doesn’t exist without that.

C: I know. It’s infuriating.

K: Yeah. (laughs) But again, I—disability is just one of those things that people like to think of as something that happens to you—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —and not like an integral part of how you move through the world and how the world sort of interacts with you, and it’s … it’s weird in this case that they’re definitely like, “Nope. It’s about being a woman!” And I’m like, (laughing) it’s absolutely not about that.

C: (laughing) Right.

K: But okay! Yeah. That whole thing. It’s just … ugh. I really do—on the one hand, I’m kind of like … I was very kind of like, ugh, of course people care about it when it’s someone who’s famous. You know? But on the other hand, I’m like, well maybe this will mean changes for people who are not—who don’t have these resources at their disposal. Hopefully that will be the case. But it’s just—it’s very ugly.

C: I think—oh, it’s awful. And I think that, I mean, without something super high-profile like this—

K: Mm-hmm.

C: —who would care about conservatorships? Who would even know what they are?

K: I mean, the only other way I can imagine any of this being being changed is if there was some kind of supreme court case.

C: Yeah.

K: Like that’s the only—those are the only two (laughs)—you either have the supreme court, or people really like your Instagram.

C: Right. (laughs)

K: (laughs) Like those are the two ways that change happens in america in 2021. Yeah. So I just—I don’t think that there’s any other way that it would have been … yeah.

C: Yeah.

K: That people would have paid attention or cared about it.

C: No. Of course it has to involve celebrity.

K: Right.

C: I mean, that’s who we are as a culture.

K: That’s … exactly.

C: So. Anyway … do we have any lasting final comments, thoughts, or concerns about names?

K: I’m trying to think. Lemme look at my notes to see what else I wrote down. Stage names; middle names; you guys … we already talked about that. Nicknames … I think I’m … covered all my things. This is always gonna happen though; every time we finish recording, I’m like, oh I wish I woulda said XYZ!

C: Oh, I know.

K: And then after that I always forget exactly … I forget everything we talked about (laughs), so I’m like, oh it’s fine. It’s fine. (laughs)

C: (laughs) It’s fine, okay? It’s fine!

K: It’s fine.

C: Speaking of names, I would like to shout out two names—

K: Okay.

C: —who are our new patrons for our Patreon!

K: (gasps) Exciting!

C: So I did shout one out on a recording that is lost to the world—

K: Mm-hmm.

C: —and I’m sorry about that. But—

K: Missed out, people.

C: —so two—two incredible human beings. One is named Matt Reid.

K: (laughing) Oh. Yeah.

C: So Matt Reid is mayor of Canada! He is born and raised a snake handler, which is kind of like … I don’t know. I kind of mentioned like he doesn’t like to talk about it much, and I hope it’s okay that I brought that out into the world.

K: (laughs)

C: Not a lot of people know that about him, and he does kinda keep it on the down low a little bit, but I think it’s a really interesting fact about him. And now, he also—now, you did not know what a corn dolly is.

K: No. I looked it up last time, and I’m still upset by it.

C: Yeah. So Matt Reid, mayor of Canada and snake handler, also has the largest collection of corn dollies.

K: (laughs)

C: In north america. In north america, not worldwide. To be exact.

K: Mm. Mm-hmm. Important distinction.

C: It is—and it is an important distinction. Thank you, Krystal. So if you don’t know what a corn dolly is, it’s a doll made out of corn.

K: (laughs) You make me sound so like …

C: I don’t know why he has the largest collection, but that’s his journey.

K: Right. I mean, you make it sound like the fact that I didn’t know what it was makes me sound like kind of a dum-dum, but I didn’t understand what it could look like, so I had to google it. Cuz I wanted to know, like, are they creepy? And the answer is yes, so … (laughs)

C: They are. No, I don’t think you’re—I don’t think you are the only one who doesn’t know what a corn dolly is.

K: Oh, okay, good. Good.

C: No! Far be it from me to assume people know what a corn dolly is. This is Matt’s thing, not mine.

K: (laughs) Yeah! Matt.

C: I would love to know why he has all these corn dollies.

K: I think it’s just a thing that’s popular in Canada.

C: Maybe it’s Canada. Like …

K: Yeah. It’s gotta be a Canadian thing. For sure.

C: Yeah. I wonder if it has to do with his snake handling background, too. If that like plays part—

K: Mm. Mm-hmm. Its ruralness, yeah.

C: —if that’s like part of the … like, get a snake; get a corn dolly. I don’t know.

K: (laughs) Gotta have both.

C: Now! We also have to shout out another patron, Lane. Lane Gates! My friend, who lives here.

K: Mm!

C: Now, Lane lived in Kazakhstan, and that is not a joke! Literally lived in Kazakhstan.

K: For reasons? Like what was the reason that they lived there? Sorry to get you off-track.

C: Just because.

K: That’s fun!

C: Just because. No, her husband Remy, who’s also my friend, got a job there as a professor, which—I have never known anyone who’s lived in Kazakhstan—

K: Me neither!

C: —and now I do. I literally have dreams now all the time—I had one like two days ago. I have this dream now very frequently where when I’m cold at night, I’ll be in an airport in Kazakhstan and I’m cold, and I’m like, “I’ve gotta get home! I’m cold!”

K: I mean, honestly, my only connection to Kazakhstan is probably one—I don’t know how they feel about it, but every time Kazakhstan—obviously I just think of Borat.

C: I know. I feel bad for them—

K: Yeah!

C: —because when they were living there, everyone was like, Borat, Borat. They were like, uggggh. But—

K: (laughs) I mean, at least people know where the country is, and that—you know, I think it raised the profile for sure, but maybe not in the best way.

C: (laughing) It sure did raise the profile. Yeah, Kazakhstan. But what else can we say about Lane?

(dog barks)

K: I was just thinking, for some reason, I thought of like … maybe there’s some kind of high dive. For some reason high dive came into my mind. They’re like a high dive champion. Some kind of diving champion.

C: Oh! Yeah! She was a high dive champion. And she once completed an art heist from our local museum, Crystal Bridges.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: I probably should not discuss that, but I guess it’s too late now! But yeah, Crystal Bridges is a very … it’s a great art museum around here, unfortunately connected to the Waltons.

K: Mm.

C: But yeah, Lane did complete an art heist, and you know, not everyone can say that.

K: Speaking of names, Crystal Bridges … I’m sure there are tons of people out there with that name. (laughs) I think it’s a very common name!

C: Oh my god, that’s good. Unfortunately, it’s Crystal with a C.

K: I mean, still. There’s probably—gotta be at least a couple hundred Crystal Bridges in america.

C: Well, I think we should end there and get on to Two Cents, No Tax.

K: Right.

C: So. Two Cents, No Tax. I’m gonna give you a few topics, and you let me know what you think of them, okay?

K: Mm-hmm.

C: Okay. How do you feel about board games?

K: Yes! I like them. I—actually it’s funny; I was just talking to, in a meeting the other day with my manager and another person, about how there’s like a D&D game in my building.

C: Mm!

K: Like there’s a weekly one, and then we got off on a tangent about D&D. But I was just thinking, I’m not good at that kind of game, like a role-playing game—

C: Yeah.

K: —where it takes a lot of creativity and whatever. I like a board game because they tell you the rules and then you follow em. And that’s (laughs) as much as I can do when it comes to a game. That’s what I want. I don’t wanna have to be super creative and use my brain in that kinda way that D&D requires. I just wanna follow the rules (laughs), I guess. So I enjoy a board game for that reason. Unless it’s Candyland, which—

C: What’s your favorite?

K: Not Candyland.

C: Okay.

K: Candyland is like—I mean, I don’t hate it; it’s just like … you know, I have a sister who’s five years younger.

C: Right.

K: And so there was a lot—I spent a lotta time playing Candyland because she couldn’t read yet. (laughs) So like—

C: (laughing) Right.

K: Yeah. That one’s—if I have a favorite? I really like Sorry!.

C: Oh yeah!

K: That’s a fun game. What else? I’m trying to think. I also spent a lotta time playing Monopoly once my sister could read, and that game is very … it’s just so much. Like it’s such a long game and there’s so many rules, and it gets heated, and I just—I like playing it, but only for a certain amount of time, and then it always goes off the rails. Like it never doesn’t go off the rails.

C: Yeah.

K: But yeah. I really like Sorry!. As a kid, that was probably like my favorite … my favorite. Is Taboo considered a board game? There’s not really a board.

C: I’ll accept it.

K: I liked that one too. With the little buzzer?

C: Yeah.

K: And if you have a really good relationship with your best friend or your sister or whatever, you can crush in that game. So that’s fun.

C: (laughs) How do you feel about ramen?

K: Interesting question. So growing up we ate a lot of ramen. Like the cheap ramen, you know?

C: Yeah.

K: The kind you get at the grocery store for like ten cents or whatever, and I was never a huge ramen person, but I did like the shrimp flavor.

C: Mm.

K: The shrimp flavor, and also Cup of Noodles—Cup O’ Noodles—which is kind of—it’s similar to ramen. I don’t know if it’s technically the same as ramen, but I liked that. But yeah, I don’t know. I definitely like it more from a[n] actual restaurant, ramen. Like that is much more my speed, where you can choose all the things, and … that’s more fun. But yeah, as a kid we ate a lot of it. (laughs) And you can still go to my grandma’s house right now. She always has a giant case of it. Cuz again, people come to her house and they wanna eat stuff, so she’s like—

C: Yeah. Me hungry!

K: —get some things—yeah, exactly(laughs)—to eat that I don’t have to make or whatever. So yeah, we are a very ramen-eating family. I’m medium on it. I don’t love it and I don’t hate it, but I do like it at a restaurant.

C: What about jewelry?

K: Oh, yes. I’m not a big jewelry person. I mean, I like it on other people, but I don’t like wearing it. I have at various points owned lots of earrings; necklaces; rings and stuff; like even watches. I tried—I just dont … I don’t know. Maybe this is like a sensory thing, but I don’t like the feeling of it on me. (laughs)

C: Yeah.

K: Like I don’t like the feeling of it on my neck; I don’t like earrings. Even the smallest studs, I feel like I could still like—

C: Feel them?

K: I know that they’re there. And I just don’t like—I don’t—rings are probably the thing I can handle the most, but I also don’t think I have like … I don’t think they look that good on me (laughs). So I just don’t wear them, and I don’t really like a bracelet or a watch either. I don’t know. I gotta do so much with my hand that I need it to be free of—I need it to be unencumbered. I can’t have—

C: Yeah. Liberated!

K: Yeah, exactly! So yeah, I’m not a huge jewelry person. Although again, like I said, I like it on other people, but not for me, so …

C: Okay! I think that’s fair. How do you feel about chihuahuas?

K: (laughs)

C: And be careful. (laughs)

K: This is gonna sound—I know. I’m like, how do I do this … uh … diplomatically?

C: Because he is in this room, by the way. He is right behind me.

K: Okay. Uh, Chico, don’t take it personally.

C: Although he can’t hear you. I’ve got headphones on. (to Chico) Shh shh shh. Don’t listen to her.

K: I like them because they’re very ugly. Is that fair to say? (laughs)

C: Um …

K: They’re just a funny-looking kind of dog, and I’m like, that’s amusing to me. I like … I like that. And they’re tiny, which I, you know, feel like I can handle. But yeah, I’m a fan of them. And their little like … I don’t know! They always seem to be like prancing when they walk.

C: Yeah. Yeah.

K: Even if they’re just doing norm[al]—it’s just so funny. They’re just like one of the funniest kinds of dog that exist.

C: You know, and Chico is not pure chihuahua. He … I did his DNA, and he is actually mostly schnauzer.

K: Oh, huh.

C: He was schnauzer, dachshund, and then like barely chihuahua. But he looks like a chihuahua.

K: Yeah, when they mix with—

C: But he’s like mostly schnauzer and dachshund.

K: Yeah. When they mix with other dog’s, it’s very—it’s a really fun result, usually—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —if it’s something and it’s part chihuahua. You’re just like, I don’t know what this is gonna be. It’s gonna be hilarious, though.

C: Yeah. And he’s passed out on my bed on pillows right now.

K: He’s doin—he’s doin his Saturday right.

C: (sighs) Saturday … Saturday relaxin.

K: (laughs)

C: Lemme think of one last thing. Oh! You know what I was—this … it’s so random.

K: Okay.

C: But this morning, I was like oh my god, remember blah blah blah?

K: (laughs)

C: Do you remember the singer Shanice?

K: (laughs) I was just thinking about her!

C: (vocalizing) I love your smile! Dunh-duh-duh-duh-duh-duh-duh!

K: Yes! Yes, I do remember her! Remember she was on Family Matters? She did like a guest—

C: Was she a love interest?

K: Yeah. Or something. She was on there for some reason and I remember thinking that her and Laura kinda looked a little bit alike.

C: I have to google Shanice. I was thinking about Shanice this morning.

K: Yeah. (laughs) Is that what you wanna know? Do I—do I like Shanice? Is that what you’re asking? (laughs)

C: Yeah. I just wanna know what your thoughts are on Shanice.

K: Yes! I love that song. I thought she was so cute.

C: I was like obsessed with her as a kid. It was so random.

K: Yes. I thought she was so beautiful! I’m like, how the heck? Yeah. She’s good. And she[‘s] married to Flex … Mitchell? What’s his last name? He’s like an actor that if you saw him, you’d be like, oh, that guy! Like the … he’s played like—Flex Alexander, that’s his name. He—

C: Who is he? Flex—I’m googling.

k: He’s been—they’ve been married for a really long time, like twenty years. He’s been on a lot of shows. Mostly I remember him being on a ton of UPN and WB shows—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —like in that era. So if you were watching basic cable at that time—

C: Oh!

K: —you’d be like, oh that guy! And he was on—

C: One on One.

K: —Money Train. Yes! One on One. That’s with K[a]yla … whatever her last name is, that actress.

C: They had a TV show called Flex & Shanice!

K: Mm-hmm. They had a reality show.

C: I did not know that!

K: Yep. Yep. Yep.

C: Damn.

K: But yeah, they have been married for a really long time, and I always thought she was just—she was just so cute to me. I was just like, you’re adorable!

C: She was so, just like … she loves a good smile. What a kind lady.

K: Yeah. And she had a great one, too. And I have a cousin named Shanice, so obviously that was like … big. When they—you know, when that came out, it was like, oh my gosh. Another Shanice, and she’s like super cute and—

C: Yeah. She loved a hat. Shanice did.

K: She loved a leather jacket.

C: Yeah.

K: Like a 90’s leather jacket. And a vest. Man, the 90’s. (laughs)

C: Yeah.

K: The fashion was not good. But she made it work for her, honestly. (laughs)

C: Yeah. Well, I’m so happy to hear she’s doing well.

K: Yeah! And her and Flex. Good for them.

C: Flex. Now that’s a name.

K: I don’t know. I’m sure that’s not his real—speaking of names—

C: (laughs)

K: —I’m sure that’s not his real like—

C: It’s actually Reflex, but …

K & C: (laugh)

K: Amazing. I think his name is—his name is Mark Alexander Knox, so … I guess Flex is fine.

C: Alex Flex? I don’t know.

K: Yeah. You can see how they’d get there, you know?

C: Yeah.

K: I think it’s cuz of dancing, probably. I’m gonna assume.

C: Dancing?

K: Yeah, you know, if you’re—

C: Oh! Like flex—okay.

K: —super flexible or whatever, and then that becomes your nickname.

C: Sure.

K: I’m assuming. Again, I don’t know. I just imagined.

C: Well, we’ll just go with that.

K: Yeah!

C: Well thank you, Krystal, for the Two Cents, No Tax.

K: (laughs) You’re welcome. What a combination of things (laughs) I’ve been asked about. I like it.

C: It’s a weird week. (laughs)

K: I like it.

C: Ramen and Shanice. Yes! Combo of queens!

K: Yeah! Very—taking me back to my childhood! (laughing) Yeah.

C: Okay. Well, now we’re gonna get to our final piece.

K: Okay.

C: Which is what we are listening to, reading, or … doin something else with. I don’t know.

K: Watching? (laughs)

C: Watching! Yeah. Thank you. I couldn’t think. So I have two things that I got into this week, or partook in, whatevs. So one … I’ll just mention briefly. It was a true crime podcast called The Orange Tree and it is done by these two journalism students at University of Texas at Austin about this case, and so when I was listening to it, I had no idea before listening to it, really anything about this case. And then it ended up that—and it’s a very brutal case that happened, I think, in like 2007, maybe?

K: Mm-hmm.

C: But this girl, Jennifer Cave, gets killed, and it’s just a really bizarre case that takes all these twists and turns that—if you’re not familiar with the case, which I was not, it was really unexpected. But it turns out that the guy who is the main suspect or was at least at the time, is from Little Rock, and so they’re like talking about things and then they’re like, “Yeah he went to Catholic High,” which was this horrible Catholic high school—all-boys Catholic high school—near where I used to live, and they were talking about the priest who used to work there and I’m like, yup, I know that guy too, by reputation—

K: Whoa.

C: —so it’s just really weird. But it’s really well-done. It was only seven episodes.

K: Mm.

C: And just a really interesting—I hate to even—I don’t know it’s weird saying that about true crime, but it was. And also, sort of just another reminder of how ridiculous our criminal justice blah blah system it is, and just what a joke it is. Anyway, abolish prisons and all that good stuff.

K: (laughs)

C: So that was the one thing. The other thing is much more fun.

K: Mm.

C: And that is the show that I watched. I tried the Sundance Channel this month.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: There’s this TV show called Trickster. And it’s on the Sundance Channel.

K: That’s the one I talked—I think I talked about that. The Canadian, one right?

C: Wait, you’ve talked about this?

K: Yeah, but we talked about like—I forget how it came up, but it’s a Canadian show based on Native American—and there was some drama behind the scenes—

C: (gasps)

K: —because the showrunner was saying that she was Native American—

C: Oh my god! That—

K: —and had basically made her whole career push based on the fact that she was a Native creator and stuff, and it came out that she actually wasn’t, and it was a whole deal.

C: Oh, dammit! Okay. I watched that.

K: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that’s why it flew under the radar, because it had all this pomp before it was about to premiere in america and that came out right before it was about to premiere in the states, and I think it kinda got buried after that.

C: That sucks, because … yeah. I mean, the show—I mean, the show, it wasn’t the best show I’ve seen, but also wasn’t the worst show.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: But it did have some really interesting things. That really sucks that whoever was behind it was like, “Yeah, I’m Native!” But no. You’re not. Because it does—it was like, they would have lines in there like “Well, five hundred years of colonialism blah blah blah,” and I’m like, well you don’t hear that every day!

K: (laughs) Yeah.

C: And they would have like Native—genuine Native, not fake Native—music on there, and they had Tanya Tagaq, who—do you know her? She’s a musician—Indigenous Canadian musi[cian]—she is like … she’s incredible.

K: Mm. Cool.

C: She does throat singing.

K: Ohh.

C: And is a powerhouse, and is unlike anything I’ve ever heard in my life. She is an incredible performer. And (laughs) one time I was watching—I don’t know what kinda music show it was; if it was like the Canadian Indie Awards, or it was some awards show. She gets up on stage—

K: (laughs) Oh yeah, they do have that. The JUNOs or something.

C: I don’t know if it was JUNOs, or something more … less mainstream, I think?

K: Mm.

C: But she was doing a performance, and a lot of her songs are like, you know, nine, ten minutes long. She’s incredibly intense. So she’s onstage. She’s like barefoot doing throat singing. The energy is just incredible.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: Behind her, she has a running list on a screen of thousands upon thousands upon thousands of either missing or murdered Indigenous women. Just like—and I mean, the song is going on and on, and it’s like name after name after name after name—just going, and she’s like doing this incredible performance.

K: Whoa.

C: Like absolutely just … I cannot express how powerful it was. (laughing) She gets done. The host, who was like a guy in … I don’t remember his name. I feel like he was in Superbad or one of those kinds of movies—

K: Mm-hmm.

C: —he goes like, “Holy shit!”

K: (laughs)

C: Like he’s just like, oh my god. And then this other band has to go on after her—

K: (laughing) Oh no, don’t do that.

C: And they’re just these white people doin like (vocalizing) “La la la, pop music!”

K: (laughs)

C: (vocalizing) “La la la!” And it’s just like, oh my god, this is so embarrassing.

K: Nuh-uh.

C: Cuz she just destroys the stage.

K: Yeah.

C: Like the performance—she just fucking killed it. And then now these other people have to go up and be like, (clicks tongue), ohhhh. So anyway. That sucks about Trickster, cuz I did enjoy it, and I—you know, (sighs), you don’t see Native—

K: Mm-hmm.

C: —stories and protagonists hardly ever, and like yeah, it wasn’t like the best show, but it’s cool to see different characters and different—just different stories represented for a change.

K: Yep. Yep.

C: And the music—I guess at least the music was authentic.

K: That’s awesome. I’m gonna look her up, for sure.

C: Yeah, Tanya Tagaq. It’s like—and I’m sorry if I’m mispronouncing it. I think it’s T-A-G-A-Q.

K: Mm. Mkay.

C: She is … she is somethin else.

K: That’s awesome.

C: If I can find that performance, I will post it, cuz it is just unbelievable. And then I think she got a lot of flak—I don’t know why, for some reason—about that performance, and then she’s like, “Literally no one had shit to say about what was going on behind me with all these names.” It was like, no one said a word—

K: Right.

C: —about her commenting on this horrific ongoing genocide of Native women that’s happening, so—

K: Wow.

C: Anyway. So that’s my little happy, happy thing I’ll end it on. Genocide! What are you getting up to, Krystal?

K: (laughs) I mean, mine isn’t like super … happy either. But it’s not terrible. But Slate has a new podcast called One Year.

C: Okay.

K: And so basically I think what’s gonna happen is that they’ll have—this podcast will be ongoing as a series, but they’ll focus on different years. So right now they just started, and they’re focusing on—this first iteration of the series—on the year 1977.

C: Okay.

K: And so I don’t know; it’s just been really interesting. It goes all over the place in terms of culture, like they’re gonna be talking about—I think Roots came out that year, so they’re gonna be talking about like Roots and how that was, and the state of gay rights in america in the 70’s in that period. I don’t know. It’s really interesting. The host is Josh Levin, who—if you listen to Slate podcasts or you like sports, you will know him from the Hang Up and Listen podcast—which I actually had to stop listening to, because I really didn’t like the other host’s voice that used to be on there.

C: Wait, which podcast?

K: It’s called Hang Up and Listen.

C: Hang Up and Listen.

K: It’s basically like a phrase that like—I didn’t grow up listening to sports radio, but apparently when callers call in, they’ll call in and say their question, they’ll be like, “I’ll hang up and listen”—

C: Oh.

K: —and they’ll listen to the person. Instead of staying on the line, they’ll listen to the person answer whatever question they just asked. So the podcast is called that. And I had to stop listening cuz there was another host on there that I just (laughs)—I could not handle his voice—

C: Yeah. (laughs)

K: —and I was like, I have to be out. So it’s kind of nice to be like, I remember Josh Levin! I used to like him talking about baseball or whatever. So yeah. But it just started last Thursday, so I don’t—I don’t—

C: Oh!

K: It’s really, really, really new. So I’m very interested to see where it goes. Slate has had a couple of miniseries kind of podcasts recently, like they did Slow Burn, right? That was them?

C: Oh, yeah!

K: And they also had the one that was focused on the murder of Tupac and Notorious B.I.G. that was hosted by Joel … oh, what is his last name?

C: McHale.

K: No. (laughs) No!

C: (laughs)

K: That would be really bad, if it was—

C: Joel Osteen!

K: (laughs) Him and his helmet hair?

C: Mm-hmm.

K: Yeah. No. Oh, I cannot—why do I—he’s on … I follow him on Twitter. Anyway. It was very—that was also—Joel Anderson. That’s his name. He … that podcast is very good, so I feel like they have a good track record for miniseries-type podcasts—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —and this one is kind of interesting, because it’s not just focused on like one event. It kind of takes even a more—a broader, taking a broader look, at like an entire year, which is gonna be really interesting. Also as somebody who was not alive in 1977, I’m like, hmm. I wonder what this will be. (laughs)

C: Yeah.

K: So yeah. That seems like it’s gonna be really good. But again, it just started last Thursday, so it’s not … they have some stuff, a ways to go. So if you haven’t caught it, I’m sure you can jump in.

C: I will!

K: What else have I been listening to, watching, reading? I haven’t read anything—actually, I started reading Sula, the Toni Morrison book.

C: Uh-huh!

K: I started reading that again, cuz I haven’t read it in … probably a decade, maybe longer.

C: Yeah, me neither.

K: So I just started that and I’m like, I don’t know. In a way I’m like, ooh, I’m really interested—or excited—to get back into this again, but I’m also sad, cuz the last time I read it she was still alive, and now she’s not alive anymore

C: Yeah.

K: But yeah, and that book’s very short, but it’s very intense, so I’m looking forward to sort of feeling a lot of feelings tonight when I finish it.

C: Yeah.

K: What else have I been watching? I feel like I haven’t been really dipping into anything new. I kind of … I don’t know. Maybe I’m just burned out on like streaming shows, cuz you know, the last year I have been able to watch so much more stuff than I had in the past—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —just cuz (laughs) no one’s going anywhere or doing anything! But now I don’t know! I feel like I’m kinda burned out. Oh! I did watch Summer of Soul—

C: Oh!

K: —cuz that was on Hulu.

C: It is?!

K: Mm-hmm! Yeah.

C: Oh okay. I paused my Hulu account, but—

K: Yeah. It’s—

C: —if it’s on there, I’ll watch it. Cuz also, there’s a show I like called This Way Up—

K: Mm-hmm.

C: —with Aisling Bea, who’s an Irish comic actress who I really like. Okay! Cool. Yeah I wanna see that movie. I’ll unpause!

K: Yeah, definitely watch it. It’s intense. It’s really … I don’t know. It’s one of those times where you’re like, you get kind of frustrated (laughs) about the fact that it took … fifty years?

C: Yeah.

K: For that footage to like … for someone to care about it and be like, this would be interesting for people to see. It’s like—

C: Right! (laughs)

K: —why did it take fifty years? Like I don’t understand anything that’s happening! But it’s incredible, and like … the one thing that I was kind of surprised by—maybe this is just cuz I didn’t read anything (laughs) about it before it had come out. But I was surprised by the range of types of music that’s in the movie, cuz like you hear Summer of Soul and you have an expectation, like okay, it’s gonna be this kind of music, these kinds of artists or whatever, but like, it’s all kinds of different … there’s jazz stuff; there’s you know, pop—what we would consider pop music—there’s like … what’s the band that did [Age of] Aquarius? What’s their name?

C: Oh. Yeah.

K: Something dimension. Something …

C: Fifth Dimension?

K: Yes. Yes. Yeah, but so I was shocked that they were like … Black. So … yeah. I don’t know. So it was very interesting to see the range of different types of music that was in there. Because I think … you know, obviously when you think of Black people, you’re like, oh, this is Black people, and this is Black people music. And it’s like, R&B, soul, hip-hop, jazz. Reggae. But there’s so much else that Black people like and are interested in, and it’s all represented in that movie, and it’s just very cool. Although I was kind of annoyed when Lin-Manuel Miranda popped up. I’m like, can I please—

C: (laughs) Yeah.

K: —have some kinda like … one experience of media (laughs) where he’s not like poking his head in? Like, please.

C: Haven’t you done enough, Lin?!

K: I know! I’m like, leave me alone! I’m trying to avoid you! Like, please.

C: You know speaking of Lin-Manuel and Toni Morrison—

K: Mm.

C: You know that she helped finance a play—

K: Yes! A play. (laughs)

C: —about—called like Lin-Manuel is a racist, or something like that?

K: Yeah. She did not—

C: I love that story. I love that story.

K: Yeah. She was a real hater—

C: Yeah. She did not appreciate Lin-Manuel, no.

K: —about him and Hamilton, that she called The Haunting of Lin-Manuel Miranda.

C: There we go. (laughs) I love that title so much.

K: I love it so much.

C: I love it so much.

K: I love her so much! Also too, I watched her documentary, the documentary about her—it’s also on Hulu—

C: Oh!

K: —that’s called Pieces—uh, what is it called? The Pieces I Am. It’s on Hulu. And I don’t know why, but for some reason a couple weeks ago I was like, I feel like watching this! And I watched it. She’s like very prominent in it, and just very—ugh. I just … love her. I love everything about her.

C: I … yeah. me too.

K: She’s so great. I totally cried, too, at the end.

C: Mm.

K: And I—cuz it came out right on the heels of like her—or maybe right before she passed? It was very close in the same time frame, and yeah, it was just really sweet. Like I loved the story about her winning the Nobel and that whole thing, and like who she invited to go with her to the ceremony, and that like Oprah was there, and Fran Liebowitz was there (laughs), and it’s just like, what a life! (laughing) What a[n] interesting life. But yeah, that’s a good documentary too. If you want—if you’re interested in … yeah.

C: I will definitely watch that, yeah. I love her.

K: Mm-hmm. It’s good!

C: Guess everything’s on Hulu now.

K: I know! I was like, I gotta switch it up. Maybe next week I’ll talk about amazon prime. (laughs) Cuz there’s definitely stuff on there that I wanna watch that I just haven’t yet. I was gonna watch Heat last night, but then I was like, oh, it costs money? I’m not doin that!

C: Mm. Man, I am so bummed that Trickster ended up being like Rachel Dolezal—

K: I mean the show itself (laughs)—the show itself I’m sure is not—you know. It doesn’t have that same kind of … I think her influence was important, but I think you can still like the show and not sort of like what happened.

C: I mean, I like—again, it wasn’t like my favorite, but I enjoyed it.

K: Yeah. I don’t think you should—

C: And I wanna see more Native stories. Like I want that.

K: Yeah, that’s my point. I don’t think you should let the experience of that person being crappy sort of color the fact that the show is like a quality show and does tell stories that aren’t told very often.

C: Yeah. Also like anything with mythology, or supernatural stuff is like exactly my shit. Like anything—

K: Do you watch the Neil Gaiman stuff? The like—

C: No. No. I don’t fuck with Neil Gaiman. I don’t fuck with his wife—

K: Okay, me neither! Okay I’m glad I don’t—I’m glad I’m not the only one. Well, his ex-wife. Aren’t they divorced now? (laughs)

C: Ugh. Amanda Schmalmer [Palmer].

K: She sucks so hard. She’s like one of the worst people on the internet. (laughs)

C: Yeah. No, I don’t fuck with them. I—no. No.

K: Okay. I just asked because—

C: Oh, Toshio, you are (laughs)—Toshio says “Best TED Talk ever.” Yeah.

K: (laughs)

C: Can we just a moment—we’re—we—her … oh my god. Her fucking audacity. Her getting up on a stage and being like, “I give so much!”—

K: She sucks.

C: That’s why—oh my god, I just—ohhh. She makes me shudder.

K: She gives so much, and then she asks musicians to come on tour with her for free. (laughs)

C: Mm-hmm.

K: I’m just like, what are you talking about? Go to bed.

C: Yeah. Her narcissism knows no bounds.

K: She’s horrible.

C: I just—I can’t take it, so.

K: That’s the kind of white hipster bullshit that I can’t stand. (laughs)

C: Same.

K: I was actually just listening to—Tune-Yards has a new album—that’s another thing I was listening to, I guess.

C: Mm.

K: But it came out in March or something, and I didn’t—it passed me by. And so I was listening to that, and I remember them being considered hipster bullshit at the time, but I was like, okay, this is the kind of hipster bullshit I can tolerate. (laughs)

C: (laughs)

K: Where hers, I can’t—I cannot do it. It is … it’s too much. It’s too much like white nonsense and hipster nonsense and like white lady nonsense (laughs) and like theater people nonsense—it’s too many of the things that I hate, like in one package. I just … no thank you to Amanda Palmer.

C: Yeah.

K: Anyway. How did we get there? Oh right, cuz I brought up Neil Gaiman. (laughs) That’s my fault. That’s my bad. Yeah.

C: Oh, no. Toshio, you’re posting these things in the chat room. It’s saying that they’re back together.

K: What?!

C: Amanda and Neil.

K: (groans)

C: Oh god.

K: I mean, good for them.

C: Now they’re in New Zealand. Fuck you!

K: Both of them.

C: Fuck you. You’re in my country—

K: (laughs)

C: —that I should be living in.

K: Well, see now you have to just go to Scotland. Like that’s where you have to go to avoid them. Just you can’t go to New Zealand.

C: Ugh.

K: It’s too small of a country; don’t wanna run into them. So now you just have to go to Scotland!

C: I just finished a really good show set in New Zealand called The Gulf.

K: Mm.

C: That was on—I think that might have been on Sundance Channel too. I enjoyed that as well. That I enjoyed probably more than Trickster, but—

K: Did you watch the … Top of the Lake? That show that Jane Campion made?

C: Yeah. I watched both seasons—

K: Okay. Oh, I haven’t watched Season 2!

C: First season, good. Second season …

K: Ughhhh.

C: What are you doing, Jane Campion?

K: Okay. (laughs)

C: What are you doing? Like she is just … oh, my god. The second season is a mess.

K: Oh, I need to see it now, because I really liked the first—like it caught me by surprise—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —like the end, and I was just like, oh my god, so good. And also—I mean … for as weird as she is in real life, I really do like Elisabeth Moss onscreen.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: Like she’s just very good at acting—

C: Yeah! I know.

K: —which is unfortunate, cuz, you know—

C: She’s a really good actress. She’s just—

K: —scientology. (laughs) Yeah.

C: Yeah. She’s a scientologist.

K: It’s a bummer. But she was so good in that, and that show was so weird, and Holly Hunter was in there—

C: Oh, I know.

K: —doin whatever she was doin—and I was like, ooh, I wonder what the second season is, and I never watched it! Maybe I should. Just to see the train wreck.

C: Eeeeeuuugh. You can, and you can watch it. Nicole took a break from Botox. So that’s interesting.

K: Oh good! I’m glad.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: She needs to take many more breaks from it (laughs), I’m sorry to say—

C: She does.

K: —but it would be much more enjoyable to watch her try to act if she could like move her face.

C: Yeah.

K: But yeah! Fun.

C: Well …

K: Did we do it? (laughs) Did we do another episode?

C: (laughs) Yeah.

K: I feel like we’re rappin—we should try to find something to like end the show on. We don’t have a thing to end—like a thing to say, or—(laughing) I mean, we don’t have a thing to say to start the shows, either, so you know, I guess it’s all just a work in progress. But yeah.

C: Well, the fans can sound off on our Twitter and Instagram about how we should end the show! @TwoCentsPlusTax on Twitter and Instagram.

K: (laughs) Mm-hmm. Yes.

C: You can also support our Patreon! TwoCentsPlusTax. And thank you to our patrons! What great people they are. I hope you enjoyed your secret lil episode.

K: Yeah, about how moustaches are evil. (laughs)

C: Dangerous!

K: Dangerous! That’s right. Not … I mean, both I guess, technically. (laughs)

C: Toshio says we can say “And that’s a wrap!” (laughs)

K: Mm. Yeah. I mean, we could. (laughs)

C: You have to say it like that, too.

K: Yeah, we have to—

C: And that’s a wrap! Wink.

K: And that’s a wrap! Yeah. No.

C: Oh my god.

K: But then how do we know to say that? I guess we just … say it? (laughs) I guess I’m—my question is like, how does anyone end any podcast? But I guess it’s just all … it just happens. You just have to do it.

C: Yeah—

K: Okay. Are we gonna count down?

C: —(vocalizing) Let the music play!

K: (laughs) I can’t believe you didn’t know that song. I’m just boggled by that.

C: I didn’t, and I went and played it later and I was like, I do not recognize this song.

K: Are you serious? You didn’t recognize it?

C: Nuh-uh. No.

K: Oh my gosh, Caitlin! (laughs) What’s happening?

C: I know. It’s weird.

K: So weird. Yeah, it was very prominent on the radio in like 1990 or whatever. (laughs)

C: Which is sh—(laughs)—Toshio—

K: (laughing) It was banned in Arkansas.

C: And it was banned in Arkansas. Who knows? Who knows?

K: They’re like, no. No music is playing! (laughs)

C: It’s like Footloose around here.

K: (laughs)

C: Well …

K: (laughs)

C: I don’t know how to end this.

K: Yeah. I mean we can just say “And that’s a wrap.”

C: (vocalizing) It’s so hard—

K: No! Don’t.

C: —to say goodbye.

K: Don’t do that. That song—I … on one hand, it definitely is like emotional, but on the other hand, it was so overplayed that I just can’t … I think I’ve heard that song enough in my life.

T: What are—yeah, what are other ways that your favorite podcasts end?

K: They don’t … they don’t! That’s the thing. (laughs)

T: Yeah. Yeah.

K: (laughing) I’m like, I get why everyone’s like, oh, it’s really hard to do this, cuz you have to decide like … to stop talking.

T: Or there’ll be like outro music sometimes.

K: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

C: Yeah.

T: And it’ll … like at the Oscars when they just start playing the music.

C: (laughing) Yeah.

K: Oh, over the talking? Yeah (laughs)—

T: The speech, yeah.

K: —and then they just fade out, yeah. So we don’t never have to stop!

T: (laughs)

K: Yeah, no. I mean, we could just say like … see you guys next week! That’s it.

C: Is that what we’re goin with?

K: I mean … sure?

T: It’s not forced!

K: (laughs) Yeah.

C: We’ll just … you know, guys, we’re done. We don’t have anything more to give.

K: (laughing) Yeah! Definitively, this is the end.

T: Well, yeah, and they’re thematic, so you could just be like, that’s all there is to say on that topic. (laughs)

K: Yes. We will speak no more of names—

C & T: (laugh)

K: —in any way on any podcast. No, I mean, we don’t have to. I was just like, oh, how do people do this? It’s very awkward! (laughs)

C: No, I think you’re right. I’m glad you brought it up, and I hope that the IRS will chime in and give us some suggestions.

K: Yeah. We’ll figure it out. Or we won’t, and it’ll be fine. You know?

C: Yeah.

K: It’ll be fine either way, so—

C: Everything’s gonna be fine! The end. Bye! (laughs)

K: (laughs) Bye!

T: Actually, that’s kind of a nice sentiment.

K: Ooh, I kinda do like it, cuz it’s like kind of winkingly ironic, like … it’s not, but then also if you mean it, then you do mean it, you know?

C: Right.

T: Right. Cuz the world is burning.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: The world is burning and the ocean’s on fire but, you know, I wanna send you a little positivity in your life.

T: Yeah!

K: I do—I do like it. Everything’s gonna be fine. I like that.

C: Okay. We’ll go with that, then. Okay. Well … everything’s gonna be fine.

K: Everything’s gonna be fine.

C: Toshio?

T: Everything is gonna be just fine.

K: Ooh!

C: There we go.

T: Sorry. I had to add a flourish. (laughs)

K: (laughing) Alright.

C: (laughs) Alright. We’ll see y’all next week.

K & C: Bye!

(theme song plays)