Episode 15: Cultural Cognoscenti

Two Cents Plus Tax

Episode Fifteen: “Cultural Cognoscenti”


Transcript has been lightly edited for readability.

(theme song plays)

K: I’m Krystal.

C: I’m Caitlin.

K: And this is …

K & C: Two Cents Plus Tax!

C: Alright! And we’re back.

K: We’re back.

C: It’s been awhile. It’s been a minute.

K: I know, people—I’m sure they miss us. Or missed us. We’re back now, so.

C: And we missed them.

K: Of course.

C: It does feel like it’s been a long time!

K: Yeah, it’s weird how like easily you can incorporate all of this—the recording and all this process—into your routine, and then when it goes away, you’re like, how did I used to do this before (laughs), like what? 

C: (laughs) I know.

K: I’m like, what was my setup? How did I have everything? Yeah, it’s funny how quickly you get … it becomes usual, and then how quickly it falls out of your brain if you take a day off (laughs) or a week off or whatever.

C: And the tricky trio is here.

K: Yeah, we’re all three!

C: All three. 

T: Hello!

C: Roll call!

K & C: (laugh) 

C: So we’re gonna do something a little different today. We’re just gonna talk about whatevs. Maybe some things that we’re listening to, or reading, whatever. 

K: Mm-hmm.

C: The cultural cognoscenti.

K: (laughs) Oh, now you’re speakin my language. 

C: Yes.

K: Literally. You’re speaking Italian.

C: Si. Spaghetti!

K: (laughs) 

C: Do you speak Italian?

K: Um, it’s hard to answer that question. Technically, I guess I do. Just because, you know, that was my—

C: What?

K: Yeah, that was what I majored in in college. That was like my—

C: Are you serious?!

K: Oh, have we (laughs) … have we never talked about this? 

C: (laughs) No!

K: Oh, my gosh. Okay, yeah, so in undergrad, I majored in Italian studies.

C: Oh my god, I had no idea!

K: Yeah! It was a bad idea. (laughing) I shouldn’t have done it. I mean, it was great. I actually was very interested—am still very interested—in it. My focus was mostly medieval Italian literature and like contemporary Italian literature from the late 19th century, early 20th century, but like—

C: God dammit, Krystal. 

K: (laughs) 

C: She is just this wonderwoman.

K: No (laughs), again, like I’m saying, this was not a good idea. I should have majored in something practical. But my understanding was like, okay, well I’m doing undergrad. I know I’m going to grad school for library science, like I know I wanna do that, so it doesn’t really matter what I major in, right? Like I’m going—my career, if I have one, is gonna be based on my graduate degree, which is gonna be hopefully [a] master’s in library and information science. So I was like, I can just pick whatever for undergrad. So I was like, what do I like? What have I really liked studying the most? Cuz it took me forever to, you know, choose a major. And I finally was like, you know what? Those Italian studies classes I’ve taken, like I really liked doing those. What would I need to do to major in Italian? So I looked into it and I was like, this’ll be fine. (laughs) Like this’ll be interesting, and I’ll come out of it with like a skill, you know, having learned to how to speak Italian and read Italian and write Italian. And so that’s what I did. (laughs) I majored in Italian. And so when people ask me, oh, do you speak Italian? I always say like, kind of, because I can definitely read and comprehend—

C: Mm-hmm. Right.

K: —much better than I can speak, because my skills have definitely atrophied over the years just cuz I don’t talk to anyone in Italian. (laughs) My last—actually, it’s funny. My last job, the CEO that was there when I started is Italian and she’s married to an Italian man. She’s American—like Italian-American—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —and married to a man who’s from Italy, and (laughs) so when she found out that I spoke Italian, I remember—it was like my first week of working there—she like … (laughing) cornered me in the hallway, like on the way to the bathroom and just started speakin Italian to me, (laughs) and I’m like—

C: Oh, my god.

K: —first of all, like how did you even know this about me? But then I was like, oh yeah, they send out those like intro emails when new people start, and I was like, oh that’s probably how she, you know, found that out. But yeah, she just starts talkin at me and I’m trying to like ??? on the fly—

C: Mamma mia!

K: —yeah, exactly! (laughs) It was just like, please don’t … A) don’t come at me like that that early, but also, you know, you gotta give me some time to warm up. But yeah, I—

C: That’s startling. You’re on your way to the bathroom and some woman is just—

K: (laughs) I know! Especially the CEO!

C: —immediately like yelling at you in Italian. (laughs) 

K: I know! I’m like, okay, you know, I wanna be professional, I want—you know. But I also am like, not ready for any of this. But yeah, I guess I technically do speak Italian. 

C: Wow!

K: Not well anymore, but I definitely can read it and comprehend it much better than I speak it these days.

C: You are an impressive lady.

K: (laughs) Again, it’s not smart. I should not have done it. I should have majored in computer science or something boring that I hate, because (laughs) I would have at least been employable after undergrad. Oh, and after the entire—

T: And have you been?

K: No, I haven’t! So people always ask me like, oh, have you—because … (sighs) it’s a whole convoluted story, but like I declared my major too late. At Berkeley, the way they do it—if you are going to study abroad, you have to do it before you’re into the advanced language classes, and so I only declared the major after I had finished Italian 4, which is advanced Italian at Berkeley. And so they’re like, well you’re too far along to do study abroad or whatever. So I was like, okay. (laughs) I guess. But I also have never been there, cuz I don’t have any money (laughs)

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —and I’ve never been outside of the United States yet, so yeah. But I would love to go there one day.

C: As would I!

T: Well, someone—a fan from this podcast … I hope that you’re out there—

K: (laughs) If you’re listening and you’re Italian—

C: Support our Patreon!

T: (laughs) 

C: We would like to come visit you in Italy.

K: Yeah. Support the Patreon; drop me a DM; lemme know what’s up. Cuz—

T: Do you have a castle?

C: I also want to go to Italy.

K: No, you’re going to Scotland!

C: Oh!

K: You’re going to Scotland, and I’m going to Italy. This is what we’ve decided now (laughs).

C: Okay. 

K: Yeah. You can go to Scotland, where they speak English, mostly.

C: Yeah. I still can’t understand it, but I’ll be there.

K: (laughing) I know! That’s why I’m like, mostly it’s English. I love a Scottish accent. It’s so wild.

C: Ugh, that is—as I think we mentioned this on the accents episode

K: Mm-hmm.

C: —yeah. My favorite accent. All-time. Scottish accent. Sexiest; I don’t know what you’re saying—

K: I mean … an Italian accent’s pretty good. 

C: Oh, Italian—yeah. For sure. I just love the Scottish though, and like, the slang? I’m like, what are you saying to me?

K: (laughs) 

C: Even when I’m reading it, I’m like, what? I read this tweet—

K: Yeah, especially because they tweet and type the way that they actually speak, which is like so wild. Yeah.

T: Yeah! And even then I don’t understand.

K: (laughing) I know.

C: Like there’s this guy Martin Compston, who’s an actor—Scottish actor—who’s on this show Line of Duty that I watch, and he tweeted something—I think it was about soccer. I don’t know.

K: (laughs) 

C: People loved it. I was just like, okay! No clue.

K: Scottish Twitter is very fun.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: Like if you ever somehow find yourself on it, it’s … it’s a really interesting place.

C: Strap in!

K: Yeah. (laughs) You don’t know what you’re gonna read. There’s gonna be all kinds of slurs and swears you’ve never heard before.

C: (laughs) 

K: Like it’s gonna be great. You’re gonna learn a lot. Probably nothing that’s like, useful, but (laughs) it’s still gonna be fun.

T: And what—

C: Yeah. They still say “ye.” Like Y-E.

K: Yeah, but they don’t say it like “ye.” It’s like—

C: Yih.

K: It’s more like—yeah, exactly. Exactly. It’s more—

C: Ye wee lassie. Oh, that was terrible.

K: (laughs) 

C: Edit. Edit. Delete. Delete!

K: No, Cat—don’t delete it! Cat can help … help Caitlin out with her Scottish accent. Even though you’re not Scottish—I know Cat’s not Scottish, but—

C: Yeah. No, she’s British. But my american friend lives over there—shoutout to Stephanie—and shoutout to her Scottish husband Steven.

K: Oh, I have—weirdly, I have a friend who just moved to Scotland, a former co-worker at my last job. She and her wife moved there cuz her wife … probably shouldn’t be giving too many details (laughs), but her wife worked for a company—

C: What’s their address?

K: I know! (laughs) Her wife works for a company and she got like … you know, assigned there—

C: Yeah.

K: —cuz they’re like trying to build up their office and stuff, so I was like … what? You’re moving to … that’s wild.

C: I know. I would love to visit. Toshio is definitely—you’re like by far the most well-traveled of us. 

K: Mm-hmm.

C: He’s been—

T: Well …

C: He’s been everywhere! He is a globetrotteur

K & T: (laugh) 

T: Never been to Antarctica. But—

C: Not yet. I hear it’s warming up. 

T: Yeah.

K: Oh, god.

T: It’s gonna be the next Maldives. 

K: Oh, god.

C: (laughs) 

T: I have been to Glasgow.

C: Yes! My future home.

T: Yeah! No, it’s great. It’s like a little college town. 

C: Yeah!

K: Mm!

T: Artsy. Got lots of vegan—

C: Yes! They’ve got the art school there. Lots of vegan places.

K: Yeah.

T: (laughs) 

C: Not that I’m vegan, but like I—

K: I only learned this from Cat, cuz she’s vegan. And so I see all the places—

C: Is she vegan? Or vegetarian?

K: I think—oh, she might be just vegetarian, actually. 

C: Let’s start a rumor!

T: Okay. (laughs) 

K: (laughs) I’m not gonna start rumors about someone who’s listening to—

C: Cat in Glasgow is vegan. 

K: Okay.

C: Spread it on Twitter.

K & T: (laugh) 

K: On Twitter and IG.

T: It’s what’s happening.

C: Yeah.

K: Put it out there. Yeah.

T: And then I also … so Italian bands that have made it to the Billboard charts of the United States of America. 

K: Okay.

C: Who?

T: Well, I’m thinking specifically of … I think the, it’s—what is it? Eiffel 65Blue (Da Ba Dee)”—

K: Were they Italian?!

T: Mm-hmm!

C: Wait, who—

K: Oh my gosh! That’s wild. 

C: Who are they?

K: I thought they—remember that song “Blue”?

T: (vocalizing) Blue! Bah da bee bah dee bah … bee dee bah dee!

K: It’s like a techno dance song. Caitlin, you have a hundred per cent heard it.

C: Oh! (vocalizing) Bee—no, that’s jazz man. Or “Scatman”?

K: (laughs) 

T: (laughs) Close.

K: I wish we could play clips on this show, because as soon as you hear like the first two seconds, you’d be like, oh yeah, I’ve heard this song ten thousand times. 

T: I probably—

C: Okay. I don’t know any Italian, like—

K: I didn’t know they were Italian, though! That’s wild. I thought they were like German or something.

T: That was probably some kind of copyright violation or something, so … might have to take that out, but …

K & C: (laugh)

T: Yeah! Yeah, that’s the one that I think of. 

K: I did not know they were Italian. I should know this. I feel like I … my interest in Italian stuff is so old that when people are like, oh yeah, this Italian thing from the 90’s, I’m like, yeah, that’s way past my (laughs) … where I was focused, so I’m like, I don’t remember.

T: I feel like—

C: You’re like Dante’s Inferno Italian.

T: (laughs) 

K: A hundred percent. That’s where I am! You wanna ask me anything about any of Dante’s writing, I can—

C: I do, actually!

K: Okay. (laughing) What do you wanna know? 

C: Can you name all the layers of hell?

K: I don’t remember them all! I just know there’s nine.

C: Were there eight or nine? Or twelve?

K: Nine. Nine.

C: Nine layers of hell. Which one are we in right now?

K: (laughs) I don’t know. Seven. 

C: (laughs) 

K: We’re close. Like, we’re really in it. Yeah, no, there’s a lotta weird stuff about Dante, when you start learning more about him. You’re just like—

C: Oh really?

K: Yeah. For sure. He’s—

C: Anything you wanna share, or just keep it private?

K: So, one of the—I mean, (laughs) it’s not private. It’s part of like … the ???

C: (laughs) 

K: But like, one of the things that people know about the Divine Comedy is that like he wrote it at a weird time in his life, and he wrote it for this woman named Beatrice, who he had like been in love with and in—I don’t know. Love, when we say love, we’re not necessarily talking about the like, you know, kind—

C: Romantic love?

K: Yeah, the way we sort of imagine it, but he had sort of had this affinity for, affection for, this woman, and when you learn more about his history, you learn that he like “fell in love” with her when she was like nine years old, which is like—

C: Ooh! No no no.

K: Creepy! Yeah. It’s very weird. He has this whole like … these treatises that he wrote prior to writing the Divine Comedy, just about like how to … you know, how to appropriately express your love to people, and I’m like, you’re writing about this—she’s a girl, like a literal girl child, and he was like—

C: Euughh.

K: —”No, but I’m in love.” It’s like, okay but also you’re already married and you have two sons. So (laughs) like what’s—

C: Oh, gross. This just gets worse and worse.

K: I know! It’s just like, it really did make me feel differently about his work, obviously, but … I mean he’s still a talented writer, but yeah. That’s one of my like … I like to drop that on people and they’re like, oh no! Everyone is really bad! (laughs) I’m like, yup.

C: (laughs) 

K: Pretty much everyone! 

T: Don’t meet your heroes.

C: (laughing) Don’t meet your heroes! Don’t meet Dante.

K: (laughs) Yeah, exactly. Don’t meet your heroes; don’t study them in undergrad. Yeah. (laughs) Don’t ever read anything about them that’s ever been written.

C: Wow.

K: Yeah. It’s a problem. But yeah.

C: Damn.

K: So what else should we chat about? What have you been watching, listening to—it’s been like so many weeks that I’m like, there could be a lot——

C: I know. There has been a lot. 

K: —or you could just be watching the same things over and over like I’m doing. (laughs) 

C: Yeah. I—today, I just started watching This Is Pop

K: Oh yeah. Yeah.

C: —on Netflix. So, I am really enjoying it. It’s broken down into I’m not sure how many episodes, but each episode concentrates on a different part of music and music history.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: So the first episode … I was like, yes! Cuz it’s called “The Boyz II Men Effect”—

K: (laughs)

C: Did I say that right? Boyz II Men Effect? Yeah.

K: Yeah.

C: And so it was talkin about sort of how they got started and their influence on pop music, and kind of what happened with them as a group, and you know … 90’s R&B is my thing—

K: (laughs) 

C: —so I was very much enjoying it, and like, everything I watched so far has been really interesting. So they had another episode about the importance of Sweden on pop music—

K: Mm-hmm. Did they—sorry to cut you off.

C: Oh no, go for it.

K: I was just wondering, in that episode did they talk about—the Sweden episode—do they talk about … oh, what is his face that did all of the like pop—the boy bands in the 90’s—

C: Denniz Pop?

K: No … him, but there’s a—Max Martin. Did they talk about him?

C: Oh, you know they did.

K: Okay. Yeah. Cuz he’s like huge in that—

C: I learned so much about … yeah, the sort of—

T: Ace of Base, my favorite!

K: Yeah, exactly. 

C: Yes, Ace of Base! And Roxette

K: (laughs) Don’t forget Roxette.

C: They had Roxette, and I almost texted Toshio. I almost texted Toshio, but I was like, I’m gonna talk to him in like an hour. But they were talkin about Roxette, which RIP—I’m so sorry, I cannot remember her name, but she died recently—

K: From Roxette?

C: From Roxette. 

K: What?

C: And I was very saddened to hear about that, cuz I love Roxette.

K: I didn’t know she died.

C: And Toshio once—he doesn’t remember this. I’ve brought this up several times, cuz like … he did a karaoke—oh, Marie Fredriksson

K: Mm-hmm.

C: Yes. I am so sad that she passed. But one time Toshio did a karaoke to … I don’t know if it was “It Must Have Been Love” or—

K: (laughs) 

C: —some Roxette song, and he had a chair, and like he pulled the chair backwards and was like, singing—it was beautiful. Such a—a five-star karaoke performance to Roxette.

K: (laughs) That’s awesome.

C: So yeah. I’ve been watching This Is Pop.

K: Mm.

C: I have also been listening to some other podcasts that are not this one.

K: What?

C: If you can believe it. Cheating on us!

K: (laughs) 

C: I only wanna listen to the sound of my own voice!

K: Horrible.

C: (laughs) I listen to the Wind of Change podcast. Have you—have you read about this? Have you heard about this?

K: Oh yeah! It’s about that song, yeah! They do—it’s a whole podcast about it. (laughs)

C: The song by The Scorpions! Okay. So … do you know that song, Tosh? (vocalizing) Wind of change!

K: I was gonna say, I bet you would. You don’t think you do from the title, but—

T: It was Eric’s favorite song when he was little—

K: (laughs) 

T: —and that’s how I know it. Yeah.

C: I love that! 

T: Yeah! (laughs) 

K: (laughing) That’s so funny. What a weird choice.

C: I love that story.

T: I mean … ???

K: (laughs) That’s true.

C: The whole podcast is really good, so the—the whole podcast … number one, it’s hosted by Patrick Radden Keefe, who wrote one of my favorite books of all time, Say Nothing, about the IRA and the Troubles

K: Mm-hmm.

C: —and then he recently did … what is it called? Empire of Pain?

K: Yeah.

C: Yeah, about the Sackler family, which I also read. He’s just a really great journalist, and ‘ve said this before, cuz I’ve talked about those books before, but I really hope he’s an okay person, cuz I enjoy him. But the whole point of the podcast was there is a theory that the song “Wind of Change” by the Scorpions was actually written by the CIA as a way to foment american nationalism and pro-US policy, and anti-communism.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: Now, to me, I’m like, yeah. The CIA probably did write it.

K: (laughs) 

C: And that can mean a lotta different things. That doesn’t necessarily mean that someone in the CIA was, you know, at their cubicle and writing down lyrics to themselves. It could mean working with a music producer. 

K: Right.

C: You know, lots of different things. So he was like, this can’t be real. Like this story cannot be real. And I’m like, do you know anything about the CIA?

K: (laughs) 

C: Do you know how far deep they go? I found out through listening to this podcast—this was shocking to me, and I am not one to be—well, maybe I am easily shocked. 

K: (laughs) 

C: But not about the CIA.

K: Right.

C: Like, I’ll believe anything. Anything! So they created a program, and of course I cannot remember the name, and I was like, remember this! But then I forgot it.

K: (laughs) 

C: It was like, African something something something. And it was a program. They sent Nina Simone to Lagos, Nigeria for a concert. She had no idea it was funded by the CIA. Obviously. Like if you know anything about Nina Simone, she would have like—

K: Never have. Never. Yeah. (laughs) 

C: —shit a brick. So she died not knowing that this concert that she had done in Lagos—American Society of African Culture. Thank god. Thank you. Thank you, Tosh. So American Society of African Culture was a CIA program. So they sent Nina Simone to Lagos for this concert. You know, she had no idea; died never knowing that the CIA did this. Louis Armstrong worked with the CIA, but he, from what I remember, he was actually aware—he was very conflicted—

K: Mm-hmm.

C: —but he was kind of like knowingly working with them. So if you know this, it’s not really hard to imagine that the CIA could be involved in—

K: Yeah. Anything? Yeah. (laughs) 

C:  —this song and like, I do recommend it. I enjoyed it. It wasn’t my favorite podcast of all time, because this is.

K: (laughs) 

C: But I do recommend listening to it. So, Wind of Change podcast

K: Yeah. I remember when I heard about that podcast—(laughs)—I heard about that podcast from another podcast that I listen to, where one of the hosts is really into classic rock and that sort of era of 80’s rock music, and so I was like, mm, probably won’t be for me. Cuz, you know, I like a lotta podcasts; I like a lotta podcast hosts, but like, we don’t often have overlap in the stuff that we’re into, and so I was like, nah, it probably won’t be for me. But only recently did I realize that the guy who wrote Say Nothing and the Sackler book was the host of that podcast, and I’m like, man, I should really check that out, I guess (laughs), at the time.

C: Yeah.

K: But maybe I’ll get into. And I really do like the podcast, generally, that’s like a limited series kind of thing, you know, a one-off?

C: I do too, yeah. I do too.

K: I enjoy that. So yeah, I’m gonna have to check that out. But I remember reading about it and being like—because I knew the like, the rumor, or the history; the myth or whatever that had been going around, but I was like, I don’t know! I mean, I am like you in the sense that I’m like, probably!

C: Right. (laughs) 

K: If someone said the CIA did something, I’m like, okay. (laughing) I believe that that is possible. But it would be interesting to listen to that to get a sense more generally of what actually they were doing and with whom, and how much did everyone involved know about it.

C: Yeah. Yeah.

K: Yeah. I need to check it out.

C: I recommend it. Like he ends up—I don’t know if this is a spoiler. But he does end up talking to Klaus Minor? Or Meine? I’m so bad with German—

K: (laughs) 

C: —who is the singer of … The Scorpions singer. 

K: Scorpions. Mm-hmm.

C: And who wrote the song despite the fact that historically, he was not a songwriter; he hadn’t written songs for The Scorpions; and he was like, “No, I was just in Moscow, and you know, I was just so inspired by blah blah blah blah blah” … so yeah, check it out. Wind of Change podcast. I think it just won some like podcast award or something.

K: Probably. Oh, was it the Pulitzer? Or no, Peabody, maybe? … Maybe. I know there was some podcast— 

C: Do they do podcasts? I don’t know.

K: I don’t know. They give Peabodies to a lot of stuff. (laughs) 

C: Where’s our Peabody? 

K: We’ve only been—

C: This is our fifteenth fuckin episode! I want our award. 

K: (laughs) We’ve only been in existence for like, six months. (laughs) Like no one’s gonna give us a Peabody.

C: No, three months.

K: Yet! Yet. Really? Three months?! That’s all?

C Three months. Cuz we started in—maybe it was February. I don’t know.

K: I feel like we’ve been doing this for awhile.

C: Um, where’s our archivist?

K: I know! It should be me. (laughs) I mean, all things considered.

C: Right! (laughs) You’re too busy speaking Italian. 

K: Yeah (laughs). I’m too busy not—I’m too busy forgetting Italian. Yeah, no I … that’s really interesting. I’m gonna check this podcast out. I’ve been saying that when I heard—when I put the two and two together about Keefe—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —I was like, oh I need to actually—I should probably listen to it. 

C: Yeah.

K: I just haven’t yet. There’s so many podcasts! Did you know that?

C: (sighs) Oh, my goodness.

K: There’s a ton, for some reason. 

C: What are you getting into? 

K: (sighs) Oh, man. I have been … I haven’t been watching that much new stuff, which—honestly, really the thing I’ve been watching most is basketball, cuz right now it’s the NBA playoffs, and they’ve been going on for … it feels like three months (laughing), but it’s probably only like four weeks or something. So that’s mostly what I’ve been watching every day. Watching that; listening to a lot of basketball podcasts. So one of the things about the playoffs—which is gonna be out of date by the time people listen to it, but—

C: I—you know what, we’re just—who knows? The listeners might get lucky—

K: (laughs) 

C: —and maybe this’ll even be out in a few days, cuz we’re just freeform style today—

K: Yeah.

C: —so hopefully I won’t have to edit a ton.

K: Okay! I mean, there’s like a game today and a game tomorrow (laughs), so who knows what it’ll look like by the time this comes out on Tuesday?

C: Yeah.

K: But the playoffs are interesting this season because none of the sort of marquee players that everyone expected to be in it are actually in it. Actually, there’s one marquee player, Giannis Antetokounmpo—the player and star in Milwaukee, on the Bucks. But like all the other teams—the Clippers, The Sun, and The Hawks—and no one would have guessed at the beginning of the season these were gonna be the teams in the conference championships right now, so it’s very kind of fun and weird, and everyone’s like, oh, if—one of these teams is gonna win the finals, and all of—three of the teams have never won it before, and only one of them has won it, and it was like (laughing) seventy years ago or something.

C: Oh!

K: So it’s gonna be really exciting no matter who wins, so that’s mostly what I’ve been watching a lot of. But I’ve been listening to more music, and—

C: Do tell!

K: I don’t know how people will feel about this, cuz again, I’m a[n] emo person and not everyone is into emo. But there’s a like emo—I guess they’re emo? There’s a lotta different slicing of the pie with that genre, but there’s a band called Foxing that I’ve been listening to a lot of—or not a lot of, but trying to get into, because they’re kind of big in the emo scene and they have this album that came out like a year ago, or two years ago, called Nearer My God. Nearer My God.

C: Nearer My God!

K: Yeah, exactly, after the Nearer My God to Thee—the sort of hymn—

C: Oh. Nope, did not know that reference. Okay.

K: (laughs) Oh my gosh, Caitlin.

C: It’s a hymn!

K: But the song—the album is obviously not—it’s not like Christian rock or anything. But they’re a big band and I just kinda like wrote them off for some reason. I don’t know why; I just … you know, I’m one of those people where like unfortunately, sometimes the messenger colors my response—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —to the actual content, and so if I hear people I’m like not super high on talking about how this thing is so great, I’m like, well it can’t be that great if these people like it, so—

C: (laughs) 

K: (laughs) I’m just like, I don’t know. So I didn’t really listen to them for awhile, and they have a new single out, and I was like, oh, people are into it; maybe I’ll go back and listen to that album. And I listened to it and I’m like, I really like this album! (laughs) Like why did I not give it a chance? And the way that I kind of thought of it … I think the reason it hit so well with me is because I feel like it’s the merger of two things I already really like—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —which is the artist—musician or whatever—Francis and the Lights, who does a lot of like R&B kind of like -ish pop—he like worked a lot with Kanye; he worked with Chance The Rapper, like he’s—

C: Yes, yes.

K: —very, very heavily like R&B—like white dude doing R&B. And the way he sings, and the electronic sort of touches to his music, mixed with this band Mew, which—I don’t know if people know them. They were like—had an album a couple years ago called And the Glass Handed Kites, which was really big. And it feels like this—Foxing is taking those two things and merging them, and I’m like, oh, I like this. It’s emo, but there’s these sort of rhythmic kind of touches to it—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —that I really enjoy. I don’t know. It’s a good album, and I’ve been listening to it for the last couple of … like the last week or so, and I’m like, man, I’m really (laughing) annoyed at myself that I didn’t get into this when it was out, and when I could have gone to see them live, cuz obviously there haven’t been any shows for, I don’t know, sixteen months or so.

C: Mm.

K: (laughs) So, but yeah, that’s what I’ve been listening—well, one of the things I’ve been listening to—is that, the band Foxing. I think they have another album coming out shortly, at some point this year. I don’t know when, but they have a new single. I forget what it’s called. I’m not gonna look it up, cuz, you know, I’m devoted to paying attention to speaking.

C: Yes. We’re in the present moment.

K: I’m not trying to be distracted. Yeah, exactly. (laughs) But yeah, I’ve been listening to it. I highly recommend Nearer My God if you’re an emo person, but you also wanna hear someone who can actually sing (laughs) and, you know, you like a little bit more rhythm than just like mathy, weird time signatures. I don’t know. It’s really good. I like it a lot.

C: Okay! Sold.

K: Yeah.

C: What about you, Toshio? Are you listening to or watching anything cool?

T: You know, I meant to put up a playlist for people who like to hear a wedding DJ—

K: Oh yeah! (laughs) 

C: Yes! From California, specifically.

T: —(sighs) from California (laughs)—you know, create a playlist for particular episodes as a special gift to the Patreons.

C: Yeah. We’ll do that!

T: And sure to generate lots of listens.

C: Yes!

T: But yeah, no I’ve been going … it’s given me a chance to go back, and I’m trying to get into what the future generations are listening to. I wanna understand.

K: (laughs) 

C: What are they listening to?

T: These teens in my life—like you know, the daughters of my friends who have kids —and you know, they’re probably over it by now, but as of like last week, maybe the week before, #BabyQueen—

C: Who is this?

T: Baby Queen … okay. So, white South African moves to London. I know, not a great way to start out a story, but—

K & C: (laugh) 

C: It sounds like a joke. 

T: I know. (laughs) 

C: A white South African moves to London …

T: She … all her songs are about like, I don’t know … microdosing—

K & C: (laugh) 

T: —and anxiety and the climate, and you know, I think things that are probably on the minds of the zoomers.

C: Okay.

T: I don’t know. I’m trying to … I also listened to some K-pop, because I hear that that’s still popular.

K: (laughs) 

C: Is it? I’m so out of the loop. 

T: Speaking of Max Martin, who famously has done a lot of work with Scooter Braun

K: Mm.

C: Mm. Nuh-uh.

T: —who’s the Tay-Swift and

C: Nemesis, yeah. 

K: He’s in the news.

T: Justin Bieber, whose name I’ve almost forgotten because he’s kind of dropped off.

C: (laughs) 

T: But … not a good guy. He is to become the manager at BTS.

C: Wait, who has? Max Martin?

T: Scooter Braun.

C: Oh, Scooter Braun!

T: Yes.

K: Whoa. That’s a choice. 

C: That’s very strange.

K: Yeah.

T: So, I don’t know. 

K: That’s like a misstep for them! They don’t really make a lotta mistakes, I feel like, and that feels weird. (laughs) 

T: I feel like they don’t need that, yeah. The other thing that I learned about BTS … and I’m mostly listening to the girl bands—and I’m goin back. I’m starting at the beginning, so I’m goin Wonder Girls; T-ara; Miss A

K: Wonder Girls did that song “Nobody,” right?

T: Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

K: I like that song a lot. (laughs) 

T: Into it! Into it. You know, Blackpink; Red Velvet.

K: Mm-hmm.

T: They’re still around. And, you know, trying to get into Olivia Rodrigo, but it’s just too much—

C: You know—

T: —it borrows too much from Lorde for me.

C: Does it? 

T: Yeah.

K: —energy. Yeah. 

C: So I actually listened to her for the first time. I finally listened to her for the first time. Guess who I got into last week, where I’m like, oh, I get it?

K: Who?

C: Dua Lipa.

T: Dula peep!

K: (laughs) I love—

C: (laughing) Oh yeah. Dula peep, as Wendy Williams would say

K: People just call her that unironically, and it’s very fun. (laughs) 

C: Oh! And our girl Demi Lovato was in the one episode of that Netflix This Is Pop show, where I was like—and once again I was like, oh! Okay, so this is a song—I’ve literally never heard a Demi Lovato song, yet we’ve talked about her all the time. 

K: I haven’t either! 

C: I was like, okay.

K: I know!

T: (vocalizing) Cool for the summer! Yeah.

C: (laughs) 

K: I’ve still never heard that. I know the song; I know the—

T: Title. Yeah.

K: —chorus. But I’ve literally never heard it! (laughs) 

C: I don’t even know that. One tangent though, from this show, that I wanted to say—there’s an episode—I think it’s the second episode, about Auto-Tune—so they go into T-Pain. I have to say—

K: Is that where that clip is from?

C: Yeah. And I have to say, T-Pain, you have won me over. He has … comes off as so charming in this show.

K: Yeah! Have you never—oh, fun.

C: I don’t know anything about him. 

K: Oh.

C: Trust me. I know nothing. But I did know Auto-Tune, and I know the cultural association of—you know, the level of mockery—

K: Yeah.

C: —that is associated with him. He comes off so cute. 

K: (laughs) 

C: He refers to himself as devilishly awkward. Which I thought was the cutest thing ever.

K: (laughs) That’s true. That’s fitting. Yeah.

C: And he’s just like adorable and vulnerable. I was like, aww!

K: He’s very cute. 

C: He really is! Like I mean nothing about him before, but I was like, oh. So anyway, I gotta say, I’m really liking this documentary series. 

K: That’s fun! Yeah, if you like T-Pain in that, I would suggest if you’ve never seen his NPR music Tiny Desk Concert

C: They go into that! 

K: Okay. It’s really good.

C: And they show a clip where I’m like … dude can sing.

K: Yeah. It’s incredible.

C: But then he’s like, I got really—he got very upset after that, though. Because people were finally kind of giving him respect and being like, oh, he can sing, he can sing! And he’s like, I do actually have talent, like it wasn’t just Auto-Tune.

K: (laughs) Yeah.

C: So it was … it’s been really fascinating watching this because number one, like I’m so … that time, I think that he was popular, I was in college. 

K: Mm-hmm.

C: I wasn’t listening to the radio; I wasn’t watching MTV. I was in this own isolated bubble, that I missed out on a lot of this stuff, so it’s like, I only know the backlash against it.

K: It’s so funny, cuz I feel like I was the same, but for me, I always had the contact with it because my sister is five years younger than I am, and so she was always into that stuff when I was like, I’m only listening to indie rock or whatever, you know?

C: Mm-hmm.

K: So I always had that line to it from her. So even if I wasn’t listening to it myself, I was always being exposed to it—

C: Yeah.

K: —because she was listening to it, so I feel like—but I also did take a liking to T-Pain at that time too, because even though his songs did have Auto-Tune, they’re good songs, like they’re good R&B songs, and so I’m like, (laughs) I don’t really care that much if he’s doing Auto-Tune. And also too, like he’s literally not the first person to ever use it.

C: No.

K: Like so many people have used a version of that like—

C: Yes. Yeah.

K: —for so long. Especially going back to, you know, the pop, boy band kinda era that I was into when I was in high school, they were all using it then. It’s not like it’s a new thing. But yeah, he’s a really good singer. And I think you’re right that a lot of people were kind of like unfortunately or unfairly like, oh look at this guy, he can actually do stuff, like after the Tiny Desk concert. But I was actually surprised, cuz I knew he could kind of sing, cuz, you know, Auto-Tune can only do so much. But like he was—it’s really good. If you’ve never seen it—

C: Yeah.

K: I recommend going to YouTube and seeking it out. Cuz he’s really singing, like for real.

C: He is! And he’s so cute. He was like, I thought I was doin a bad job. 

K: (laughs) Aww!

C: He said he could not—and he’s like … beautiful voice.

K: Yeah.

C: And he’s not makin eye contact with anyone in there—

K: Mm-hmm. I think he even has like sunglasses on for part of it.

C: He may have. The clip I saw, he was wearing glasses, but it was just cute. I gotta say. He’s cute, T-Pain. Shoutout to T-Pain. 

K: (laughs) I always thought that too, you know. But then again, I have—I’m a fan of a big boy, so it’s not uncommon.

C: (laughs) As am I. Yeah. We like a big boy.

K: Yeah. That’s really—also, when you’re talking about this Netflix show, This Is Pop, it made me … it reminded me of the other Netflix show that was kind of similar but was mostly about hip-hop, which was called Hip-Hop Evolution. Did you watch that?

C: Oh, I missed that, but like … sounds like it would be exactly what I’d be into.

K: It’s similar. It’s similar to this where it has like—every episode focuses on an era or some specific event or whatever in hip-hop over the evolution of hip-hop. And the one I was thinking of that I liked the most was—obviously—the episode about Bay Area hip-hop—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —and sort of the rise of it, obviously, and they talk about Tupac and his … sort of how he kind of brought Bay Area hip-hop to the mainstream even though there had been artists like E-40 and all these other people who were like—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —and Digital Underground

C: Yes.

K: —who Tupac was like affiliated with or whatever, and it reminded me of that because I remember after Shock G passed away, Shock G from—

C: Digital Underground.

K: —Digital Underground passed away, I went back and re-watched that episode about the Bay Area—the folks on the Bay Area one—cuz he’s very prominent in it. But that’s a really good show if you’re like, hey, what’s another thing that’s like This Is Pop, but a different genre, I would highly recommend Hip-Hop Evolution. I think it’s also on Netflix too. 

C: I will—

K: Or it might be on something else now. I don’t remember, but I watched it on Netflix.

C: I will definitely check that, yeah.

T: And if you can find it, I think some of the episodes are on YouTube, but in a similar vein, lookin behind the music—but not Behind the Music

C: (laughs) 

K: I was gonna say, I’ve seen a lot of those. (laughs) 

C: I used to love Behind the Music.

K: Me too! Even though a lot of them were for bands I did not care about. It’s just drama!

C: Oh god, I loved it!

T: I’d watch it. Yeah! Oh, absolutely. But yeah, in that vein, Unsung, which was on TV-One.

K: Yes!

T: Yeah! They … I mean, it’s a lot of one-hit wonders in terms of like the … (sighs) the culture of the Billboard 100’s Like maybe they only had one song that crossed over from the R&B or like dance charts. Like a Shannon.

C: Who is Shannon? (laughs) 

T: (vocalizing) Let the music play! Don’t let it get away.

K: Yeah! (laughs) 

T: I don’t know if that’s the actual … (laughs)

K: That’s a banger! That’s a freestyle banger.

C: How do I not know any of these songs?

K: That’s like songs from like the 80’s, Caitlin.

C: Shannon, “Let the Music Play”?

K: It reminds—if you’ve ever heard like Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam

C: Oh, yeah.

K: —it’s like one of those type of freestyle pop songs—I don’t know. What is it—

C: I’ll google later.

T: There’s a good one on Arrested Development

C: Mm! 

T: —that talks about how Speech from Arrested Development was like really jelly. Jealous.

K: Mm.

C: He was kind of a dictator, I believe.

T: Yeah. But then like for a moment … god, what’s her name—

T: —left the group.

K: Dionne Faris?

C: Dionne Faris?

T: Yeah, Dionne Faris.

K: My thing! 

C: That’s Krystal’s thing.

K: I love her! (laughs)

T: Yes!

C: (vocalizing) I know what you’re doin! Yeah, yeah.

K: That’s my jam! I love that song so much. (laughs) 

T: Speech was not happy! (laughs) 

C: No he was not. 

K: Hey, don’t be jealous of Dionne Faris. She’s gettin hers.

T: Totally! Yeah, and then yeah, there’s a really good one—there’s a decent one on Sylvester

C: Oh man.

K: I was just about to ask if you’d seen the Sylvester one, like that’s a really good one.

T: Yeah, and … who else?

K: But they don’t just do like … they have a lot of like not … you know, it’s not always just like … I mean it is mostly older group[s]—people from the 80’s and 90’s, but they have some … (laughs) I was gonna say modern, but this is like, I guess they’re all twenty years—the artists haven’t been famous for like twenty years, but like—

T: But deserved.

K: —they do have one on like Jagged Edge, or like Kelly Price, and people from the 2000’s and stuff.

T: Yeah. I like the Digable Planets one.

K: Ooh.

C: One of my all-time favorite groups.

T: Yeah, and—

C: Did you know—this is a little gossip. Did you know that what’s his name from Digable Planets—

K: Ishmael Butler?

C: Huh?

K: Ishmael Butler.

C: Yeah, Ishmael Butler—he dated Coko from SWV.

K: I did know that. Mm-hmm. 

C: I’m like—yeah.

K: I recently just was goo[gling]—SWV was on a Verzuz vs. Xscape.

C: Yes.

K: And obviously that sent me down a wormhole, and I was like, you know, googling all them trying to find out stuff about them, and yeah, in the personal life section of—learn a lot (laughs) in the personal life section of Wikipedia, and I remember reading that. And if you google him, he’s … looks real good. He’s got the little gray in his beard, and it’s … 

C: He has—oh my god. He has always been—

K: A lot’s happening. Yeah. He was fine in the 90’s— 

C: Oh. He’s always been fine. 

K: (laughs) Yeah.

C: And he’s aged well. 

K: Mm-hmm.

C: He has aged well. What was his group? He did a few things after Digable Planets. I can’t remember … 

K: He did Shabazz—was he Shabazz Palaces, or—

C: Yeah, Shabazz Palaces.

K: Okay.

C: And I think there was another thing, like Cherrywine or something … I don’t know. I didn’t like anything he did as much as I liked Digable Planets.

K: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Unsung was good too though.

C: And that’s my Two Cents Plus Tax. (laughs) 

K: (laughs) But Unsung is good. There are so many shows that are of that ilk, like we were just talking about, you know, This Is Pop, or Hip-Hop Evolution, or Behind the Music—I have a soft spot for all of those kinds of shows.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: I don’t know why. I just think it’s so interesting, like—

C: Oh, yeah.

K: —cuz obviously, almost none of these bands are still existing (laughs), so it’s always interesting to hear about like what … what happened? (laughs) What happened and how was it when you were super famous?

C: Mm-hmm.

K: I don’t know. It’s just interesting.

C: Yeah, we need to do a documentary about us. 

K: (laughs) What?

C: For the fans—get a little behind-the-scenes so they’ll know about the drama. We actually hate each other!

K: This is it. We’re doing it right now! (laughs) 

T: I mean, when I heard that there are podcasts about podcasts? That was—

K: (laughs) 

T: I mean, and I shoulda known. 

K: Yeah.

T: That’s the thing right now.

C: Who—who’s—what podcasts are having podcasts done about them?

T: Well, I mean, anything that’s a larger podcast.

K: Yeah. I know a lot of big comedy podcasts—not a lot, but like I know a handful of big comedy podcasts have podcasts about them. So like … Comedy Bang! Bang!. You know that podcast, Comedy Bang! Bang!?

C: Yeah! But they—

K: I think there’s a podcast about Comedy Bang! Bang!. Where people talk about the ??? episode is. I’m pretty sure, yeah.

C: Oh my god. Somebody do a spinoff of that [for] our podcast. I would love—I would fucking love it.

K: (laughs) It would be just everybody counting how many times I said the word “like” in the episode (laughs) and then they’d explode, cuz it’s too many.

T: (laughs) 

C: They could do a super cut of every time I say I don’t remember someone or something—

K: (laughs) Oh yeah.

C: It’ll just be “I don’t remember. I don’t remember; I don’t remember; I don’t remember; I don’t remember.”

K: You can’t count the episodes where Tosh is not here, cuz that wouldn’t be fair. (laughs) 

C: (laughs) 

K: Cuz we’re like constantly floundering when we’re like—

C: I know!

K: —”What was the name of that thing? I’m not googling it.” (laughs) Yeah.

C: (laughs) Oh, man.

T: That’s a thing, though. Yeah. And—

C: (laughs) 

K: I never knew what a podcast producer did, and I’m like, oh I get it now! (laughs) Like I get—

C: He’s the glue that keeps us together! 

K: Keep it together! Right. (laughing) Cuz we would just like …yeah, we’d be all over the place, for real.

C: I know. I know. What else? Oh! Another thing on Netflix—I guess I’m just like, really into Netflix these days.

K: (laughs) That’s fine! I had a[n] HBO Max phase! So that’s good that we’re searching for something else.

C: That’s true! You were shilling for them every week for awhile.

K: I was! I wish I were—I’d be happy to shill for them. 

C: The TV show Feel Good on Netflix—

K: Oh, yeah yeah yeah! You texted me about that.

C: —which I also recommend. So I watched the first season when it came out, whenever that was. A couple years ago. Details don’t matter. 

K: (laughs) 

C: But, really good. And then the second season came along and there’s no one super famous other than Lisa Kudrow on there—

K: Mm!

C: —and she plays Mae’s mom. But it’s this character who’s a stand-up comic in England, although she’s Canadian. Mae Martin—unless that’s the person from Good Girls

K: Mkay.

C: Who am I thinking of—

K: No, Mae Martin is—

C: —which just got canceled!

K: I know, I was—as soon as I saw that news, I was like Caitlin’s gonna be very bummed about that.

C: I am so mad.

K: (laughs) But it’s gonna be good for me, cuz I can catch … (laughing) I can catch up now!

C: Oh my god! Like … justice for Good Girls! That show is good.

K: They—honestly, they had like four seasons, right? Like that’s … you know.

C: They have four seasons, and honestly this season hasn’t been that great. But I still wanna watch! I wanna get my Manny Montana fix—

K: I like them! I like that actor—I like those actors. Yeah, where—I need—okay, you’re right about that. We need to find some place to put Manny Montana, cuz we can’t not look at him anymore.

C: Yeah. Manny Montana and Christina Hendricks

K: Ugh!

C: —like it’s two of my crushes that I’m like—

K: Did they ever—no, I was gonna ask you if they ever … I don’t want you to tell me.

C: They do hook up, yeah!

K: No, Caitlin! (laughs) 

C: I’m sorry if I just spoiled that. I’m sorry.

K: (laughing) I just said don’t tell me!

C: Well this is from like seasons ago. Like literally years.

K: I know! I told you I was like ???

C: I feel like I’m outta the woods there. I’m okay.

K: No, that’s not fair! (laughing) I literally said “don’t tell me!”

C: I’m sorry!

K: No, but I dipped out in the middle of Season 2,so I’m like super behind.

C: Oh! 

K: I’m like a season and a half behind, so.

C: I thought they hooked up in Season 1!

K: No! Remember? They definitely had those … you know, where they’d get super close, their faces together—

C: Ugh!

K: —I’m like, okay, well just kiss. That’s what everybody wants. But they didn’t—

C: I know.

K: —cuz Matthew Lillard was there—

C: Right.

K: —or existing, or something. Anyway.

C: The sexual tension—

K: So good.

C: —between Manny Montana and Christina Hendricks is something that inspires me. And—

K: It makes me think that she has it with everyone.

C: Yeah

K: Cuz, you know, in Mad Men, she basically had it with like every single (laughs)—every single character she was in a scene with. It was like … it always felt very hot.

C: Mm-hmm. 

K: —even when it wasn’t trying to be, and I’m like, it’s just too much. Maybe this is just her thing, but she was just like, really good at it.

C: She is, to quote Toshio’s favorite singer John Mayer—

K: (laughs) 

C: (laughs) She is sexual napalm. 

K: Oh my god.

C: Christina Hendricks is.

K: Oh my god. She’s a ridiculous person. 

C: Yeah.

K: She’s just too beautiful.

C: That was a joke. We all hate John Mayer.

K: Yeah, he sucks!

C: He is a total garbage person.

K: I’m sure anyone listening to this is like, (laughing) obviously that is not serious. He’s nobody’s favorite. And if he is—

C: No. (laughs) 

T: God, I hope not. 

C: Oh yeah! So, back to Feel Good. It is a good show. It’s got Mae Martin. Mae Martin uses—I know because I googled—so she’ll use she and they pronouns. And Canadian but lives in England, and the show is like her as a standup comedian—she’s a real live standup—and this show is like her and this girl—George is her name—and their relationship. And again, I can always find stuff to nitpick over, where I’m like, well, this is kind of annoying. But there are things that I do like really love about that show, and I think it’s genuinely funny.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: It draws you in. It is about her kind of gender journey and not really knowing, you know, who she is and how to identify, and the Season 2 arc really hit home. I don’t—I dont wanna say too much about it because I really want people to watch it, but it’s kind of like—

K: Yeah. Don’t spoil it!

C: I won’t. Well, I won’t say too much, but I will say it was—it hit home very personal to me.

K: Mm-hmm.

C: Like, grooming and an inappropriate relationship with this dude, and like she’s having mixed feelings, and it just felt very honest and complicated and nuanced in a way that you do not see very often.

K: Especially where comedy is concerned—

C: Yes.

K: —because we’ve been seeing that in the last, you know, however many years it’s been since like Me Too was a thing, but so many male comedians have been exposed as like—

C: Predators and abusers, yeah. 

K: —just groomers, yeah. It’s really something that needs to be like—have more light shed on it, because it’s a problem. (laughs)

C: Exactly. And another thing is I like—I guess maybe that’s weird, but she has—she’s an addict, or recovering addict—sometimes not recovering—

K: (laughs) 

C: —and it’s just like very honest and I was like, oh man, there’s a lot here that I am really … (laughs)

K: Yeah.

C: It’s very close to home, and … speaking of which, I hit my one-year sobriety date on June 17th—

K: (gasps) Yes! You did it!

C: —so that was a big deal for me. I’m very happy about that, and—

K: That’s awesome. I’m so happy for you, dude. Congratulations.

C: Thank you. Me too. Thank you very much. I got myself a very expensive candle yesterday from Whole Foods. It was like half of my salary.

K: (laughs) 

C: Not even joking. It smells so good, though. It’s coconut sandalwood.

K: Oh my gosh.

C: Get yourself a wonderful-smelling candle.

K: We love a healthy indulgence. That’s great. (laughs) 

C: (laughs) I lit it before the show.

K: Yeah, so Toshio put in the chat Work in Progress, which is what I thought of when you—

C: Oh! That’s a good one.

K: When you texted me about the show, that’s exactly what I thought of. I was like, oh, it’s the young version of (laughs)

C: Work in Progress, yeah.

K: Younger version of that person from Work in Progress, which is also very funny, and I feel like not that many people watched it, though.

T: Yeah, I feel people slept on that the first time around, and then … it’s comin back for Season 2 though, y’all.

K: Oh good! Nice.

C: Yay! I am so happy about that. I really like that show.

K: Mm.

C: I think it was on Showtime, right? Work in Progress?

K: Yes, it is.

C: And it’s Abby … I don’t remember her last name. She’s a comedian. 

K: Oh, I don’t remember.

C: From Chicago …

K: It reminded me of a more palatable version of like Curb Your Enthusiasm, you know?

C: Mm-hmm.

K: Where like not everybody is irritating to the point of like, I don’t wanna watch them, you know? (laughs) 

C: (laughs) Yeah.

K: It’s irritating to the point of oh, they’re just incredibly neurotic and everyone’s just tryna like figure it out. (laughs) I really liked it a lot.

C: Right. And Julia … what’s her name. Julia—

K: I literally only remember the first names of (laughing) anyone from that show.

C: No, from SNL who played Pat—

K: Oh! Julia … oh gosh. What is her last name? Sweeney!

C: Sweeney! Yes. Yes. Abby McEnany

K: Yeah.

C: Is Work in Progress, and she’s—she has severe OCD. 

K: Mm-hmm.

C: And she is like—and this is a comedy—planning on killing herself—

K: (laughs) It is! It truly is, yeah.

C: Yeah, planning on killing herself when she’s getting rid of … all—what is it, coffee beans? She’s like getting rid of a coffee bean a day, and when the coffee bean—almonds. Thank you. This is why producer Toshio is amazing.

K: (laughs) 

C: When the almonds are gone, she’s gonna kill herself, and then she ends up dating a … I don’t remember their name in the show, but it’s played by—the character is played by Theo Germaine, who I follow on Instagram, who I love—

K: Chris.

C: Chris. Okay. That relationship; there’s so many good things. And there’s a really good disability scene—

K: Mm.

C: —in that show at a Dolly Parton concert in the bathroom, so.

K: (laughs) 

C: Yeah, Work in Progress. That’s another good one.

K: Also really fun. Yeah. I would say—is Feel Good more like a comedy, or is it more like comedy-drama? Dramedy.

C: Yeah. Well, I would … more—wait, what was that? Dramedy? Is that what you said?

K: Yeah.

C: Yeah … like it’s definitely a comedy, although this season—

(dog snores) 

C: (laughs) That was my dog. Did you hear that? Snoring?

K: (laughs) I did.

C: So this season definitely had a serious arc to it—

K: Okay.

C: —and may have … well, I won’t say anything more, cuz I’m just spoilin everything today.

K: There’s a lot goin on. There’s a lot goin on, yeah. (sighs) That was really funny.

C: Yeah. Anything else to recommend? 

K: I mean, I don’t know. Like I said, I haven’t been watching that much stuff. I have so many things that I’m like, oh, I’m putting this on my list and I’m gonna watch it, or I’ve watched like the first episode of five million things. I think I talked about it on the show, but like watching the first couple episodes of Underground Railroad, which I just haven’t—

C: Oh, Underground Railroad. I’m too scared to watch that, I think.

K: (laughing) I haven’t brought myself to finish it, but maybe I will, since I have a long weekend this weekend. But yeah, I’ve watched a lot of first episodes of stuff, and I’ve watched some comedy specials, but nothing … I haven’t gotten into any series, which is a bummer, cuz I really wanna watch something new. I finished Hacks, which I think I talked about on this show.

C: Yes.

K: It was fine. I think I liked it less than most other people did. I think it’s really good, like obviously Jean Smart is doing incredible work in it. And I did not know that the woman that plays Hannah in the show is the daughter of Laraine Newman from SNL

C: Oh!

K: I did not know that! I guess cuz her last name is different, I just never put it together, but apparently that’s Laraine Newman’s daughter playing Ava in the show. Her name is Hannah in real life. Yeah, it was good. I don’t know what I think it needs to fix it. Or not fix it, but to like make it better for me. 

C: Mm-hmm. (laughs) 

K: I think that it just kind of like—I don’t think there was enough character—

C: Manny Montana.

K: (laughs) Yeah. I mean, there wasn’t actually—

C: Put him in there.

K: There was two episodes where like Ava had a thing with a guy who was very hot—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —and it ended (laughs) in a very—that episode was like my favorite. Everyone liked the episode after that, but I’m like, this episode was the funniest episode. All the episodes have funny things in them, but for a show that’s supposed to be a comedy, I’m like this is the episode that everyone should be pointing to! Anyway. There was like one hot guy in it. Actually there’s like two. But they’re like … together.

C: Put more hot guys on TV! Like what do we have to do, dude?

K: There was—there’s some hot guys on the show, but I think the two of them are queer, and they’re together in a couple, and then there’s this one guy Ava was into, and something happened with that that’s very funny. (laughs) I mean, it’s terrible, but like the way Ava reacts to it is very funny. And … yeah, it was a good show. I think there needs to be more character development with Ava, and generally I feel like there was some steps skipped in the relationship development between Ava and Deborah—the Jean Smart character and the Hannah Einbinder character—but ultimately I think it was fine. 

C: Mm-hmm.

K: I think—I forget who said this. I think it was Doreen St. Félix, who’s the—I hope I’m saying that last name right—who is a culture writer for The New Yorker and other places, but like she wrote about it, and her—one of the things she mentioned about the show is how white it is, which is very—I mean it makes sense considering who the show’s creators are and stuff, but also like that’s not really the lived reality of comedy as it exists right now.

C: Right.

K : Especially not the LA comedy scene, which is like what Hannah’s or—you know, Ava, is coming out of, and it made me really notice sort of the makeup of the show and the fact that there are like Black and brown characters, but they’re all orbiting the white characters—

C: Right.

K: —and literally all in assistant positions. And it’s just kind of like … I mean, you could have made one of these comedians not a white person. (laughs) I mean, I get that they’re not dudes, and so it’s like, okay, well this is progress, and I’m like … I guess. It is, but—

C: Is it?

K: —yeah, it made it very sort of … it was very jarring to me when she pointed that out. I’m like, oh yeah, literally all of the brown people follow after the white people (laughs) as their assistants and stuff.

C: Yeah.

K: I’m like, this is weird. But yeah, it was pretty good. I would recommend it. It’s very easy to watch cuz it’s like thirty minutes, like not even—each episode—and there’s only like ten episodes, so you can watch it in a day. It’s not hard. But yeah, Jean Smart, she’s so good. 

C: Legend.

K: She’s incredible in that show. But there is an episode with Anna Maria Horsford. Do you guys know that actress?

C: Horsford?

K: Yeah. She—I think it’s Horsford or Horford. 

C: No.

K: She is like—she reminds me of Jenifer Lewis in a way, where she’s like this Black woman who plays the mom of people a lot in movies and stuff over the last twenty-five, thirty years—

C: I’ll google. I don’t know anyone’s name either.

K: Okay. Do you remember the show Amen

C: Yes!

K: Nobody knows this sh[ow]—okay. She was the woman in Amen, the like—

C: Okay. You should have just started with that, Krystal!

K: Literally why would I start with that?!

C: I know.

K: (laughing) I literally have not met any other people who know that show.

C: Oh, my god. I used to love Amen growing up! 

K: It was so—it was always on at my aunt and grandma’s house, like every day. 

C: Yeah.

K: It used to come on in syndication on my local Fox station, so it was like, Mama’s Family; Amen

C: (laughs) 

K: —and then it was like noon, and then it’d be like In the Heat of the Night, and I’m like, oh my god, these are like … the oldest shows in the world. (laughs) 

C: Oh my god, yes. Anna Maria Horsford.

K: Yes. She plays a comedian from Deborah’s generation in one of the episodes—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —and I’m like why couldn’t she have been Deborah? You know?

C: Yeah, I know.

K: Like why couldn’t that have been the main character? She’s incredible. But yeah. Anyway, she’s so good in it, and I could not believe she’s seventy-three years old. Like when I saw her in that episode, I’m like, how old is this woman? She’s been doing it for a long time.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: And I looked her up and I was like, that is—she looks amazing.

C: Yeah. She does; I just googled her. She does look amazing. 

K: She looks so good! But she’s so funny in her episode! She’s in it for—you know, it’s just a cameo. She’s in like the one episode. But she’s so incredible, and I was like, man, they really missed an opportunity. They could have had this person being the main character. Like it would have played just as well, you know?

C: Yeah.

K: I mean, you wouldn’t have had necessarily the one-to-one analogue with Joan Rivers and this Deborah Vance character, but you could still see the comparison if the person would have been Black. Anyways. Yeah. It was pretty good. I liked it. It was one of those shows that like sort of got less and less good as the series went on, for me—or I was less and less invested in it as the series went on.

C: Yeah.

K: And so I think I saved the last four episodes, so I kind of binged once they were all up. But yeah, it was good. I think it’s getting a Season 2, so people will be able to watch more of it, for sure, next year I guess? But yeah, I haven’t really been watching too much other stuff. I wish I had more to report than basketball, but (laughs)

C: Yeah. Well, it’s all good.

K: —everyone knows that already. Or should know, anyway. I guess I could talk about that other album I’m listening to. It just came out yesterday. 

C: Oh!

K: By this local … it’s not a band. It’s a person. Her name is Tia Cabral. But she does … her stage name is SPELLLING, with three L’s.

C: Ooh. Ironic!

K: I—Caitlin, I—every time I think about her, I’m like, this is something Caitlin would like.

C: Okay!

K: Cuz she’s very like … I feel like her vibe is very like woo-woo crystals energy—

C: Mm-hmm.

K: —kinda person. And she likes to like harken back to Kate Bush a lot—

C: Ooh! Okay.

K: —and I’m like, Caitlin would definitely like this. Her new album came out yesterday, and obviously I’ve only listened to it one time, cuz it was out twenty-four hours ago. But it’s really good so far. It’s called The Turning Wheel.

C: Ooh! I like that too.

K: Yeah.

C: Makes ya think.

K: I know. I was like, I gotta—it’s one of those albums where I was like (laughs) … it makes me wish I did drugs, you know?

C: Yeah. (laughs) 

K: (laughing) Like it’s probably really good if you do drugs. It’s probably a really good album to put on and just like chill to. But yeah, I really like her and I think the album is really amazing, and so I’m hoping she’s going to tour this year, cuz I’ve never gotten to see her cuz—

C: Right. We’ve been in lockdown.

K: —again, pandemic. Yeah. She’d be really … she’s really awesome, and I think you would like it, Caitlin. 

C: Okay!

K: It’s like synth pop-py. I saw somebody like … compare her to—are you a PJ Harvey person?

C: Yes!

K: Okay. So someone said it was like if PJ Harvey and Solange did a thing. 

C: (gasps) Wow. 

K: And I was like, that’s good—I like it! (laughs) You know, I’m like, that’s for me, so—

C: I like both of those artists.

K: Yeah.

C: So yes. Okay. Thank you for the hot tip!

K: (laughs) 

C: Well, I think that’s all for today.

K: Yeah! We did it.

C: Yeah. I mean, we have given the fans so much!

K: (laughs) Everybody found out—

C: We’ve gotta keep some energy to ourselves!

K: Yeah, exactly. I gotta save more info about myself that I thought you knew that you didn’t know for the next episode.

C: Yeah! We can’t give it all away. (laughs) 

K: (laughs) 

C: So I guess just yeah, follow us. Twitter and Instagram: @TwoCentsPlusTax. And support our Patreon!

K: Yeah! Also—I was gonna say, support the Patreon, and you know, we do at some point wanna do like a Q & A episode, so send us those Qs!

C: Send us those Qs, yes!

K: So we can A them. (laughs) 

C: And we need to shout out Liza!

K: Yes!

C: Our newest patron. Thank you so much, Liza. I believe that—you know, I’ve known Liza for a little while on Twitter, and Liza’s a wonderful person. And I—you know, many people do know that she is very brilliant. She’s a brilliant woman. Liza is a very brilliant person. But she also was the first person to ever do the moonwalk, and not many people know that about her.

K: (laughs) 

C: It is incredible! 

K: These are my favorite.

C: So thank you, Liza!

K: Thank you Liza.

C: We appreciate you, Liza. With a Z.

K: (laughs) 

C: Any last comments or concerns? 

K: Oh, I literally just remembered another thing I did watch, but we can talk about it another time.

C: Save it. I don’t wanna hear about it.

K: Yeah. (laughs) Fine! I won’t talk about it now! But next episode. Or some future episode where we do like a … a chat.

C: Yeah. I like this. I like this form. 

K: Yeah!

C: It’s, uh … god, we’re good! Okay.

K: (laughs) 

C: (laughing) Alright guys. Well, until next time. We’ll see you later.

K: Bye!

C: Bye!

(theme song plays)